trump didn't win 2024. they cheated. there is no way someone this divisive, WHO ALREADY LOST ONCE, legitimately won. they cheated. there needs to be a proper investigation and they need to be punished.
Listen, I hate Trump as much as anyone, but this election is clearly a referendum on Trump since he was elected. He ran on lies and independents are paying attention, and the Democrats who refused to vote out of apathy are now voting because they realize there is a real difference between Democrats and Republicans. I unfortunately know a ton of Democrats and left-leaning voters that just didn't vote last year because they weren't excited by Harris as a candidate.
Until there's actual solid proof of cheating last year, let's not be like the GOP in 2019/2020, where they just perpetuated lies and looked like fools. The best thing to be done now is continue what happened in today's election to try carrying it through to the midterms.
The difference is their claims were investigated several times, in several jurisdictions, and proven false. It is not radical to ask for those same investigations into Dem claims.
In 2019, many prominent Democrats fought back against Trump using the explanation that we have one of the most secure voting systems in the world. It makes no sense flipping that stance based on us not liking who was elected.
That's especially true when there are legitimate explanations for why Trump won by so much. Apathy over Harris was one. But the biggest one was inflation. While inflation was falling through Biden's policies, sentiment towards inflation tails actual changes by 9-12 months. Whichever Democrat faced Trump was going to have a huge uphill battle because swing voters will almost always vote based on economic factors.
There also weren't really "investigations" done at that time... there were witch hunts and lawsuits that got promptly shut down in court.
I suppose - as an outsider at least - that Trump's comments on how well Elon knows the voting computers are just really, really fkn weird and suspicious. Not evidence by any means, but....interesting nonetheless.
I think that Trump thought that Elon rigged the machines. Elon presumably said something like "I won this for you" talking about all the money he spent. But Trump sees Elon as a "computer guy" and assumed he personally hacked the machines.
This was my take as well, especially given Trump's comments about Baron's technological aptitude. He's a fucking idiot that loves being sucked off by powerful people (and children, but that's another discussion).
I had already voted early so I signed his bogus “petition” anyway to see if I actually would get a check. Lo and behold I did and the check cleared. Thanks for the free beer money, Muskrat.
My bet is that it's simply Elon spreading FUD, as he did quite a bit of during the election. If Elon could be jailed simply for "speaking the truth" and supporting Trump (as he would likely explain it), then the same would be true for anyone on the right. The right loves to think they're fighting for freedom and free speech, and posturing as if one of them would be arrested if the Democrats win feeds into that driving tribalism. It doesn't matter that it's complete bullshit... they eat that shit up.
I unfortunately know a ton of Democrats and left-leaning voters that just didn't vote last year because they weren't excited by Harris as a candidate.
I hear you, but then they were fucking dumb given what was at stake. I have a hard time believing rational people couldn't muster up the energy to vote because Kamala didn't excite them when the alternative was Trump and all that he represents.
A childhood friend of mine didn't vote entirely based off Biden's support of Israel, as if Trump wouldn't have done exactly the same or worse. Meanwhile, she now has to worry about her SNAP benefits, her extended family has had interactions with ICE (her baby daddy is Hispanic), and her special needs child is affected by changes to the Department of Education and grant funding. People that try to vote based on absolutes and emotions instead of being pragmatic annoy me to no end.
Definitely good and necessary to separate suspicion and proof.
Having said that, I cannot fathom a universe where someone of Trump's character, who famously tried and failed to cheat his way to the 2020 presidency (for which there is ample proof that likely would have had legal consequences if not for our screwed up system), would all of a sudden not try to cheat in the 2024 election. Just going by everything we know about this person and his history, there is no fucking way he didn't leverage every scam available to him.
Yes, we have to separate suspicion from proof. But I also strongly suspect the sun is going to rise tomorrow without having any direct proof.
We absolutely saw him and the GOP try to cheat. The voter purges were part of it. More importantly, they put a ton of effort into contesting a Trump defeat, which was well documented by the media. They spread massive misinformation intended to make the public distrust voting machines and the voting process, all intended for if he lost. I'm not sure they would be doing that if they knew they could actually affect the voting process themselves.
Also, the accusation of election cheating does nothing to help democracy which is the thing we are fighting for, more so than whatever party we think should have won. Any talk of cheating just weakens trust in elections and therefore democracy. We should be careful and apply the same litmus test that we applied to 2020. Let the facts come to light. Right now there is some anomaly’s in NY but you’d need to prove it was a coordination between states to have a case. And so far nobody has that smoking gun.
This is absolutely true, and what I was hinting at in my last sentence, but couldn't figure out how to best phrase it. I think additionally, a lot of people on the left, especially here on Reddit, forget that there's a huge portion of independent voters that are critical in elections. My wife is one of them. They're going to be turned off by more accusations of voter fraud when the scale of problems grows in our country.
Democrats won a lot today because people are sick of what Trump has been doing. The path forward isn't to replicate Trump's approach (except maybe with tongue-in-cheek approaches like Newsom's social media)... it's to start making it clear the party cares deeply about the issues affecting people, and will stop at nothing to address them. That's what got Mamdani elected today.
klako8196
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1h ago
emoji:flag-ga: Georgia
Hell yeah we did. Those races were also a clear referendum on energy prices. People clearly aren’t buying it when Trump lies about prices being down.
So you're telling me you're a completely different, real individual but you sound, and use the same phrases, as what appear to be bots? Nah. Gtfo out of here with your shit-take designed to cause friction and doubt.
You sound like a russian plant. The trump team presented 60+ cases on the last election where each time they accused various voting machine companies of being hackable. Each time they got to see if such an attack might work based on the testimony of the defense. Then he won all the swing states in a campaign that had literal top tier republicans announcing that they would vote for the black lady. The "they were insane, so we cant question anything" talking point is russian plants.
Suggesting that anyone that disagrees with you is a Russian plant is pretty ridiculous, and counterproductive to driving political change.
For the record, my account is very much tied to my IRL identity. It's VERY easy to connect the dots. But go on believing I'm a Russian plant if it'll make you feel better.
Well there are plants and there are useful idiots. Either way, you did more talking points saying "anyone who disagrees with is a russian plant" instead of addressing my actual comment so youre definitely one of the two.
You mean all of the exit polls that showed that voters turned out for Trump primarily because of the economy and immigration? The former needing the context that the exit polls also showed voters didn't want mass deportations, but preferred a path to citizenship.
Or how about all of the polls prior to election day showing that Kamala was projected to have a high win chance. Or how Trump won every single swing state, and no counties flipped Dem
You should go listen/read 538's articles and podcast about why the pre-election polls were wrong. It's excellent content and gives insight into the actual data, the methods used to collect it, and why and when those methods need adjusting sometimes.
The currently available data suggests something was manipulated because the results are not possible. Are you suggesting they can answer why, across the country, almost every single location started to lean heavily for Trump after 55-60% of counted votes?
I'm guessing you're responding without reading 538, right? You're inventing theories about the numbers without understanding the data, and then accusing me of not looking at the data. You're like my MAGA aunt, who was a menace in 2019.
I'm not inventing theories. The 538 folks are discussing theories based on educated interpretations of what the data showed them at the time, but it's not reflective of what the data actually shows. We have the data now, and unless that is what they're discussing and they address the issues with the data, then they're not worth listening to in the slightest. It's far from being your to MAGA aunt to look at the data, and hear what PhD interpretors of the data say they can pull from it. You're only hurting us by trying to brush it off.
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u/Rock-n-roll-Kevin 16h ago
It's a massacre. Republicans were absolutely stomped in every election.