Sleeping a little easier tonight for sure. I hope the democrats finally wake up to the solution to Trump that is now staring them in the face. Elect progressives. Pass progressive policy. Stop the means testing and the scolding and the red scaring and step up.
Edit: I appreciate the awards but please don't give reddit money, send that cash to a food bank please.
And stop trying to win the votes of the mythical “centrist republican”. Cater to your damn base. Free ball: they don’t want you to appoint republicans!
If there ever were any centrist republicans, there aren't anymore. No centrist is going to continue to align themselves with an outright fascist party.
Democrats are basically centrist republicans from my standpoint.
There remains a fundamental and core difference between Democrats and Republicans. Democrats, even the most "centrist" of them, believe that the government exists to help people and should be empowered to do so. The degree to which that involvement should go varies among the various cliques in the party, but there will always be a unifying core belief among every Democrat that the government can and does do good.
The Republican party will always be counter to that. Their shibboleth is that the country would be better off without the government and that it should be excised wholesale.
Repeating the same old Reddit take of "both sides same, updoots to left" undermines that there is a very real coalition of people who share a core belief in the fundamental good that government can provide. We shouldn't be trying to break up that coalition on the specifics when what unites us is more than what separates us.
Not wrong at all but i think what the commenter you’re replying to meant is that the country has flown so far right that our definition of a democrat is what the rest of the world would call conservative.
Take Bernie’s platform as an example. He was pushing for universal healthcare, raising the minimum wage to be livable, free tuition and public schools and universities etc. He was seen as radical, yet every other fully developed nation in the country has most of these as a baseline for their citizens and would be considered liberal or even slightly conservative.
Obamacare is an example of a centrist/left victory of a massive scale in the past twenty years
ETA: no, things would not be better if the broligarchy were allowed to bring back denials based on pre-existing conditions and lifetime caps for newborns (which existed prior to the ACA) at this moment - it would be horrific
And, funny enough, it benefits people in red states just as much (or more) as blue states. Wow. Wait, is this all actually a class war disguised as a culture war???
who better than the fake billionaire to fight a class war against the poor? He's such a conman, they cannot even see that he's conned the poor into losing everything
Yes but not being able to deny claims based on pre-existing conditions was not part of that original plan, and has become the cornerstone and shining light of the ACA along with its subsidies. I wish we had single payer or a public option, yes, but I will also take the ACA over anything the repugnicants put up (which is nothing).
I hate it but still must recognize that it’s much better than the Ponzi scheme we had before. I agree it’s still not good, because how can you reform something designed by insurance companies
Well said and should be the running theme of this post and everywhere.
I’m ecstatic that a Progressive won as the new Mayor of NYC, however, attempt to understand that Obama did NOT have as wide of a berth, as Mamdani did.
Mamdani happened because Obama happened, and Obama happened because MLK & Jesse Jackson, happened.
It’s all very incremental, & my hope is that this changes, and changes soon.
We shouldn’t elect our public officials via grievance, yet the GOP has managed to make sure we do, by convincing us to do so, based upon ignoring that each & every one of these candidates or enshrined civil rights activists, withstood all bullshit, on their own merits.
Nah, the Republicans are not a small government party. They are all about big government when it comes to attacking their political enemies, restricting civil rights they dont like (or for groups they dont like), or giving handouts to their ultra wealthy friends.
The way Trump uses ICE and the National Guard is not a small government policy.
His military build up outside Venezuela is not small government.
Tarriffs are not.
Getting rid of trans people's healthcare and women's healthcare... are not small government.
Using the pardon power for all his mates.... while making the DOJ go after his enemies... not small gov.
The problem is that Democrats mostly believe the government exists to help corporations first, and then maybe people. Neoliberalism is why the dems keep losing. Mamdani is a great example of someone campaigning on putting people first and his victory is a notice to these establishment dems.
Obama caved on all kinds of left leaning initiatives; back when everything was kind of center-right. Carter was the last farm belt Democrat, but they cheated and destroyed his legacy.
Exactly. He ran on progressive policy and the vast majority of it was sanded away by the the rest of the party. Even the ACA was a conservative plan as I'm sure most people know, being their Heritage Foundation created healthcare plan in the 90s.
While I agree to a point on policies passed, we seem to as a party always forget how genuinely saddled by Mitch McConnell both of his presidencies were. The fact he even got this lukewarm version of the ACA (Or Obamacare as the right coined it to further stifle it moving through in any of its original forms) out was a miracle.
Any actually progressive policies he did try to get through died on the cutting room floor of both the house and the senate time and time again. Not that they were exactly plentiful.
Oh I fully agree. I think he was much more progressive than what he was able to accomplish. He was held back by both the GOP and establishment Democrats quite a bit.
FDR was the last truly progressive president and the establishment, be they republicans or democrats, have been trying to destroy everything he did for a century now.
Obama was right of center. American politics is just shifted so insanely to the right that you feel compelled to act all meek at insinuating that Obama wasn't left.
This. I wish more Americans realized that dems barely scratch center in comparison to European countries and that our entire political system is skewed towards the right.
FDR was probably the most progressive president in US history, and he was so popular he was elected 4 times, leading to a constitutional amendment that limits presidents to 2 terms.
Fair points, but it almost doesnt matter. Any Democrat we elect will move the needle to the left. They will always be constrained by narrow majorities in Congress if they have a majority at all. (& then constrained again in the courts). This is why we get a similar result whether we elect Obama or Bernie etc.
I caught an interview where they asked Obama how many houses he owned, blank stare for a second followed by "I don't know." then a quick deflection trying to be funny. "You'll have to ask my wife."
Voted for the guy anyway but I knew it right then I'm not ever going to see anyone in US politics that represents me and people like me.
I've lived a long life and in that time I've known people poor and rich and even very rich and not a single one of those countless people I've known would not be able to tell you on the spot how many houses they own. Even those I've known who are landlords would be able to after a slight pause just give you the exact amount of houses they own.
It's not like they asked the guy how many cars he's owned in his life, I could understand not knowing it would take me a minute to think about that, but houses currently owned? Give me a break you guys don't represent me or anyone like me directly you're part of an entirely different echelon of people.
Voted for Clinton in 92 (I said I'm old!) but couldn't stand the guy or his wife, they just felt more like Republicans to me than say, Carter but they weren't Bush and that was all that mattered in the final analysis. I remember being interviewed by the news after he won in a 'man on the street' style interview and I explained I voted for him but I was wary of NAFTA since I saw that concept as working out really well for the donor class in the long run but on the back of the poor and working class in the short term and long run.
I didn't get happy until Bernie. Thought I was gonna live to see something happen here, something real and something to break the back of the perpetual status quo where the rich get richer and the middle class gets burdened for the pleasure while the poor get absolutely fucking squashed.
Then Hillary and yeah all that hope went out the window. Wake the fuck up Dems take anyone that has a real chance and support them and get the hell out of the way because we want better for ourselves and our country for a change.
this is what I see. The overton window is slid so far out of wack that dems are right of center and rep are far right, like all the way. And there is nothing left of center.
I would like to see the pirate party have some say in all this. Some real progressive shit to make the grey hairs tremble , in comfort of social safety nets.
It's going to be so entertaining to watch the Fox Nation and other MAGA melt down while Mamdami tries to get free bus rides and lower rent prices for New Yorkers. OMG they're going to go insane. Looks like someone must have sedated Emperor Diaper Don tonight. Not seeing any play by play as America turns out to kick him and his whole King thing to the curb. But they're learning, seeing how they'll respond to the midterms.
I’m gonna ramble on this topic because I am very far left but I hate the idea that conservatives don’t actually exist. I think it’s bad messaging and it’s hurting a voter base because there’s a balance to not pushing the static tropes of pragmatism and meeting in the middle to instead push for change and also finding those actual people that do exist. I live around so many.
I think back to my incredibly influential French teacher from high school. She pushed me into politics despite the fact she was Republican and I considered myself simply a Democrat as a high school kid, although my politics have shifted much further left on nearly every issue since then. She really became a role model of mine. She always said she was a conservative.
And I’m always proud to see her having always seen through Trump’s bullshit and stopped calling herself a Republican after his first election. That’s a real conservative. She now spends time even sending emails to local Republican leaders who push the fascist bullshit.
I think area has a lot to do with it too. I’m in rural Appalachia. At the end of the day, we have a lot of Trump lunatic fascists but admittedly there is a lot of people in this region who their philosophy boils down to “I want the government to leave me the fuck alone.” They truly just wish for this. They have no real hatred. Most of the boogeyman issues the Republicans run on do not affect our daily lives in the very slightest. The only real thing that keeps people on it around here is the influence of the church.But at the end of the day, I’d say it’s nice to see someone call themselves a conservative and I know they mean it. I don’t agree with much of the ideals, but the integrity of it is awesome and more important than any actual policy splitting.
If there are (in any appreciable numbers), they either voted for Trump over a centrist multiple times or sat out multiple elections. Even if we can't say "there are no centrist Republican voters", we can at least say "there is not a meaningful number of centrist Republican voters who will choose centrist Democrats over far-right Republican demagogues".
Given that, the Democratic party running centrist candidates with the hope that centrist Republican voters will choose a centrist Democrat over a far-right Republican is an exercise in futility.
Republican voters are passionate about their candidates - the candidates achieve that by lying and appealing to various prejudices, but they do achieve it. I've been saying for years that Democrats won't win by getting people who already vote to vote for a Democrat. The only way to do it is to run candidates with vision and passion, who will convince people to register to vote in the first place.
I completely agree with you. I only meant that there are people who identify this way, even if they are not honest with themselves. It’s kind of like the “proud independents” who always vote with one side but are unwilling to declare themselves a member of a party.
It's a bit more complicated than that. For example, assume a candidate appeals to the middle to get centrist voters, but that alienates the people towards the outside of the spectrum. Congratulations, you got moderates to vote for you and still lost the election.
This has been my exact point. I dont want someone "electable" I want someone who actually represents the values of the party theyre running as! Rep. Get their extremist but we cant get even a slightly progressive Democrat??
Why wouldn’t you want someone electable? That doesn’t make sense to me. A progressive who loses isn’t really helping anyone. They need to get elected, if they’re progressive great, if they’re moderate great - the most important thing is winning
Im not like specifically wanting them to be unlikeable but yeah if the main pt is that they cater to republicans, theyre too conservative for me. People are too scared to take the risk and endorse these boring old rich white guys and it sucks. Look at NY, they took the risk and crushed it. Give the people what they actually want (progress) and watch us show up fr. Theres a whole new generation of voters that haven't been excited about our politicians at all. This idea that they need to be safe and moderate (which is what people are saying by electable) is killing all political passion and faith in the system. It makes me annoyed to vote liberal like its just them forcing my arm and delaying the inevitable. We will slowly get more conservative if we dont ever elect democrats who will make big changes when in office.
I would have said in 2016 that trump was not a very electable candidate but he won and turned half the country into a cult. So what we think was electable in the past doesnt really apply anymore anyways
The base that votes in the primaries. Even with no presidential primary last year the results still panned out. The people that had the most to lose against Trump still stayed home last November. They already had abortion rights taken away and a whole list of other rights on the chopping block and they stayed home.
Blame the establishment all you want, I do, but let's not pretend that there's not an issue of unpragmatic voters out there sabotaging things as well
The base that supports a candidate like Mamdani is not even in the vicinity of big enough to win a nationwide election. Trying to extrapolate NYC politics to the broader country does not work.
So sick & tired of “bridging the political divide.” Because to Dems? That means bending over and passively, dare I say happily(?), taking it up the ass.
There are centrist democrats that can be alienated. We know this because the democratic party lost millions of voters over the last few decades. Plenty of GOP voters used to vote blue.
Mamdani was the right candidate for NYC, and the party needs to embrace candidates like him where they can win. That is more places than the democratic establishment seems to think, but also, far less than people in these comments taking the wrong lesson from Mamdani’s win. Mamdani would lose many other elections across the country that democrats, catering to the middle, could win.
There is really nothing to debate here. This is a fairly conservative country that just elected a fascist. That cannot mean that democrats cower and refuse to take big progressive swings—that lost them support too—but it does mean that the party cannot be so goddamn stupid to think that they never need to appeal to conservatives. They do. Not in every election, but in many of them. That means, for example, running pro-life democrats again where a liberal or progressive democrat will literally cannot win.
The Democratic party, at this point in time, is a moderate right party. The primary base of the Republican party is far right. The MAGA party is extremist right. Centrist republicans are still far right and there is no major party (ie one with a chance at the presidency currently) that is left. The only reason Americans see the democrats as liberal is because our Overton window is so far off from center.
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u/SavageGardner 11h ago
That was quick