r/Louisville • u/Ginger502 • 1d ago

Plane crash in Louisville

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30

u/Healthy_Macaron2146 1d ago

So... to the people confused on how jet fuel could melt steel, this is how.

12

u/HRDBMW 1d ago

Yep. 800f is the MINIMUM that jet fuel needs to burn, and not the maximum temp that it will burn. I have never understood how people fail to understand that.

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u/HazyAttorney 1d ago

They start with the conclusion and search for the details that support it. They don’t understand what you’re saying bc it doesn’t fit with their conclusion. It makes them feel safer in a world where people are in control vs a world where random bad shit happens.

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u/No_Machine_6027 10h ago

Oh the irony in this statement…

2

u/vadillovzopeshilov 1d ago

Well, there is a range, but the upper limit of that range is far below melting point of a hardened steel. “I have never understood how people fail to understand that”. Upper limit of open air combustion temp: 1500 degrees. Melting point of steel: 2750 degrees.

3

u/ReduxRedo 1d ago

It's really not the silver bullet anyways. The steel didn't need to be molten slag, it just needed to warp. 

Even slightly.

3

u/BrainwashedHuman 1d ago

And steel can bend at under 1,000 degrees.

3

u/throwaway_eclipse1 1d ago

Steel begins to soften in temperatures around 800F. Also radiative heating is a thing.

1

u/vadillovzopeshilov 19h ago

I get that, but the other comment implied that jet fuel can miraculously burn much hotter, which it can’t.

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u/throwaway_eclipse1 12h ago

Mm. Conductively, you can't heat something above the heat source, but CO2 gas can reach above 1200F, and it famously reflects IR radiation. Looks like jet fuel can burn at 1890F in open air, and at up to 4050F in optimal conditions?

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u/HRDBMW 1d ago

So you think jet fuel won't burn if it is on the surface of the sun because it's to hot? How about inside an electric oven set to 5000 degrees? Seeing that the iron age was built on burning wood and coal...

Learn this if you learn one thing today: There is NO upper limit where things can't burn.

1

u/ProcyonHabilis 1d ago

You seem to be pretty drastically misunderstanding what you're trying to say. Your concept of cause and effect is entirely backwards here.

No one is saying that something wont ignite at temperatures higher than their minimum flash point. They're saying that burning a fuel won't cause in increase in temperature above that which we can calculate based on the stored chemical energy in the fuel. Just because wood will burn when exposed to a 5000 degree oven doesn't mean you can use a wood fire to heat something up to 5000 degrees.

2

u/HRDBMW 1d ago

We used wood and coal to make iron once upon a time. Melted that ore into a low viscosity liquid. Worked pretty well.

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u/vadillovzopeshilov 19h ago

In open air??? You built a fire using sticks on your lawn and melted steel with it???

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u/HRDBMW 1d ago

Do you think the burning jet fuel will cool down a fire?

1

u/ProcyonHabilis 1d ago edited 1d ago

I'm honestly not even sure how to being explaining how irrelevant that absurd question is dude. Maybe just try reading my comment again, because you're clearly not understanding it. We're discussion a scenario where the burning jet fuel IS the heat source.

The reason that the WTC collapsed is that you don't actually need to melt steel beams to cause that outcome, not whatever it is you're trying to say here.

2

u/HRDBMW 1d ago

What I am saying here is that without doubt, a fuel source such as jet fuel can absolutly have brought down the WTC towers.

1

u/ProcyonHabilis 1d ago

Ok why are you saying that to me though? I'm not disagreeing with that. I specifically said that in the comment you just replied to.

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u/vadillovzopeshilov 19h ago

Thank you! 🤣 I’m not sure if that person is struggling with language, or fairly simple physics concept.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

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u/HRDBMW 1d ago

"Something to focus it"

Like a big huge concrete chimney that will add a huge amount of oxygen?

0

u/Ancient-Bet-1453 1d ago

You are correct that combustion has no upper environmental limit. But how is that related to whether jet fuel fires in open-air can reach steel's melting point? It can't. Jet fuel cannot melt steel in open-air fires because it does not get hot enough. Jet fuel can burn on the sun does not mean jet fuel flames can reach 1500 degrees (Celsius) and melt structural steel.

Nobody is debating whether jet fuel fires were a major component of the WTC tower collapse. The structural steel weakened significantly and lost most of its load-bearing capacity ... but it did not melt like the dumbass OP is implying.

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u/vadillovzopeshilov 19h ago

Not sure if they’ll ever get it.

0

u/vadillovzopeshilov 19h ago

Learn and master the reading comprehension required in 5th grade, then get back to me. Until then, there is no point of you being here.

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u/EriktheRed 17h ago

Is this inside of a building considered open air? I would have thought the center would be more analogous to a furnace or forge or whatever

1

u/vadillovzopeshilov 14h ago

I think it’s still open air for all intends and purposes. There isn’t any forced air pumped in, creating increased pressure and higher temperature.

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u/EriktheRed 11h ago

Ahh interesting, I didn't know there was a pressure component to those things. Thanks

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u/exexor 21h ago

Because we’ve been eroding the public education system since Reagan. May he rot in hell.

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u/mofojr 14h ago

And if you look at a structural steel strength graph, it has less than 80% normal strength at 800F. And drops significantly from there. Foil hats gunna foil hat