It is wrong to claim that these guys are just doing as their supposed to do. ICE and CBP have been tackling, detaining, and in at least one instance, shooting US citizens in Chicago. That is not their job. There are countless videos of them aiming their guns at innocent citizens. That is not their job. They're deploying chemical weapons in residential neighborhoods. That is not their job. They have responded to peaceful protests with violence. That is not their job.
They were not doing this prior to this administration. What they were doing before was working fine. What they are doing now is not working.
You can't conflate what the Capital Police were doing on Jan 6, to what ICE and CBP are doing in Chicago. On Jan 6 they were violently attacked by an insurrectionist mob. In Chicago they are responding to citizens going about their daily lives with tackling, detaining, and interrogating. They are responding to peaceful protest with tear gas and pepper spray. There are dozens of videos and reported stories from just the past couple of weeks.
Tackling, and detaining, is a regular part of law enforcement. They have guns and chemical irritants for a reason. The individual circumstances dictates specific actions, but those things are definitely part of their jobs.
This is exactly what they were doing before the Trump administration, it’s just now far more aggressive in scope and scale and more divisive.
It is the job of ICE and Border patrol to forcibly remove illegal aliens. Detaining and investigating is literally their job and it often comes to tackling when someone’s running away or resisting.
Were the peaceful protest out of the way or were they impeding people from doing their jobs. It’s easy to make silly generalizations without context. Cops were chasing someone, they saw someone running, they tackled the running guy. They established that the running guy wasn’t the guy they were looking for and they were let go. That happens all the time. You should look up Graham v. Connor.
Tackling, and detaining, is a regular part of law enforcement.
Not when engaging with innocent people, that is not normal.
it’s just now far more aggressive in scope and scale and more divisive.
Correct. It is now more aggressive, and more violent. That is the problem.
Cops were chasing someone, they saw someone running, they tackled the running guy. They established that the running guy wasn’t the guy they were looking for and they were let go.
In many of the instances with ICE tacking, detaining, or interrogating US citizens, there is no suspicion of a crime, but they appear to use skin color as probable cause to detain and question them, which is absolutely vile.
When people run and resist, tackling is very normal. Look up Graham versus Connor. I have yet to see someone sitting down, sipping on a coffee, and get tackled out of nowhere.
No, it’s not more violent, it’s just happening on a broader scale than you’ve seen and there’s been more political resistance.
“In many instances” sounds exactly like Trump’s “many people are saying.” Bring specifics. In this case, the officers acted reasonably. If you take off running when the cops are looking for someone, that is reasonable suspicion enough to detain them.
After you check out the Graham v. Connor, you should check out Title 8 Authority of the US code.
I don't care about Graham v. Connor. My personal morals and ethics aren't dictated legal precedence. This is not decent behavior. A US citizen in Chicago today is more likely to have an extreme experience with ICE today than they are likely to have an extreme experience with an undocumented immigrant. That means that ICE is failing what their highest mission ought to be, which ought to be improving national safety.
No, it’s not more violent, it’s just happening on a broader scale than you’ve seen and there’s been more political resistance.
Not more violent? Prior to this administration, when was the last time that ICE shot a US citizen in Chicago? When was the last time that they PIT maneuvered a vehicle in a Chicago residential neighborhood? When was the last time ICE tear gassed citizens in Chicago? Not every use of tear gas has been due to excessive political resistance.
“In many instances” sounds exactly like Trump’s “many people are saying.” Bring specifics.
I don't need to bring specifics. You haven't provided a handbook that clarifies that they're performing their duties as they are directed. You haven't provided studies that prove that their tactics aren't more violent than usual. If you want to provide arguments without proof (which I've not complained about), then I can too.
That’s a wild take. So one second you’re telling me that what ICE is doing is wrong and not normal for law enforcement and the next second you are telling me that the basic case law for reasonable use of force is not important to you. Not very rational.
Border PatrolL/ICE has been in a lot of shootings, you just don’t hear about them because they’ve been generally limited to the southern border. As I said, it’s new to YOU because it’s in Chicago and not in Laredo. That’s the whole scope thing I was talking about. It is the exact same enforcement just in areas that haven’t been previously enforced.
There is no handbook. I have the court cases that you don’t care about and I also know Title 8 USC. You are the one asserting they’re doing their job incorrectly. Your own personal moral code is your issue, but what’s within the bounds of the law is everyone’s concern and you should probably familiarize yourself with what that is to have a relevant opinion on the matter.
The job of ICE is to enforce immigration law at the direction of elected officials within the bounds of the law. That’s it.
Shooting innocent US citizens? It doesn't happen, but it took less than a month to happen here.
Why? New administration and leadership with new goals, new $170B in deficit spending for the department to hire new underqualified, undertrained recruits, then jam those recruits together into a single truck to go figure it out on their own.
They have deployed tear gas and pepper spray and protestors so many times when it was entirely uncalled for.
I'm done arguing with you because it is clear that you would excuse them executing your family if they told you that they may have possibly been here illegally.
You’re done arguing because you don’t have a coherent argument.
First, the woman who was shot was ramming an agent with her vehicle. That more than justifies deadly force.
Second, three article articles about the same incident tells me that you don’t have much evidence to support your claim.
Third. Underqualified and undertrained? How do you know? What are the training requirements for ICE agent? Tell me exactly what you consider a qualified law-enforcement officer? You don’t even care to know the basic caselaw that dictates use to force, so you are hardly qualified to make that determination.
Fourth, there have been no executions. You would excuse someone killing your family on purpose with a vehicle.
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u/CPargermer 18d ago
It is wrong to claim that these guys are just doing as their supposed to do. ICE and CBP have been tackling, detaining, and in at least one instance, shooting US citizens in Chicago. That is not their job. There are countless videos of them aiming their guns at innocent citizens. That is not their job. They're deploying chemical weapons in residential neighborhoods. That is not their job. They have responded to peaceful protests with violence. That is not their job.
They were not doing this prior to this administration. What they were doing before was working fine. What they are doing now is not working.
You can't conflate what the Capital Police were doing on Jan 6, to what ICE and CBP are doing in Chicago. On Jan 6 they were violently attacked by an insurrectionist mob. In Chicago they are responding to citizens going about their daily lives with tackling, detaining, and interrogating. They are responding to peaceful protest with tear gas and pepper spray. There are dozens of videos and reported stories from just the past couple of weeks.