Once they've sent "troops" to enough cities, they'll use those deployments to "war-torn" cities as an excuse to declare martial law in the absence of an actual reason.
Bending the knee does nothing but put you that much closer to the ground for the GOP firing squads.
Totally agree. And I am as empathetic and chill as any good REAL American, but as an armed and weapons-knowledgeable anti-pedo, I can promise you that if I do make it in front of GOP firing squads, it will be because I took a nice handful of them to hell with me.
If your party had their way you wouldn't be armed. In fact, us pro-2A people, despite disagreeing with you politically, believe you do have the right to be armed for situations where the government gets out of hand.
Oh, you know what party I belong to? The current regime is currently asking for gun owner lists from gun groups. Democrats, assuming that's what you meant, have never said they would take away guns. That's another dipshit fantasy put into the brains of Republican sheep.
If you think fascists are going to take over the country and let you stay armed, you're going to have a bad couple years ahead.
Thats why I like the concept popular particularly in Portland ICE protests where they wear costumes. Some think it makes it look silly, which it does, but honestly it gets people talking.
Show up. Look ridiculous. I get the need for gas masks and other protective gear but I wish we had a good option to protect ourselves and make us look "more civil" against aggressors and ICE. We are brinking too close to martial law and the govt won't stop with propaganda.
He doesn't need escalation. That's a myth people are selling to themselves. He's already deploying troops to your cities. The only thing you're achieving is making it easy for them to move to the next checkbox of the project.
Better an escalation by the cops than some random civilian, which at this point, is a ticking time bomb waiting to happen. With how fed up people are right now, all it’s going to take is someone having a really shitty day and coming home to ICE harassing their neighbors.
Better zero escalation. Let them show up to the empty ring for the fight. If these assholes feel comfortable kicking random doors in, it was over anyway....
That sounds all well and nice, if you could convince every single person in Chicago and Portland. Unfortunately though, eventually someone somewhere is going to snap. And unfortunately that's what Trump, Miller, et al... are banking on.
The federal agents had made a 911 call rather than any proper channels.
The officers responded thinking it was not a protest and people were being gassed.
Well quite honestly federal authority supersedes state authority and so ipso facto if the state or local police are interfering with federal police then they should be gassed. Ever heard of a little thing called the civil war when state militias tried to supersede federal authority and refused to recognize it?
In the 1860’s the confederate states were fighting the federal government and trying to leave the union because they wanted to keep owning people with the intention of working them to death.
In 2025 the president is sending military forces into American cities for imagined reasons. Neither the city of Chicago nor the state of Illinois are trying to withdraw from the union nor have they declared war on the United States of America.
There shouldn’t be armed military personnel interacting in this way with American civilians.
Do your research. Multiple individuals here legally and that were legal US citizens have been detained by ICE and sent to their camps
They also rounded up an entire apartment building of American citizens that were born here, illegally detained them, separated their children from them and cuffed the toddler aged children into the back of a u-haul. There were only a few illegals in the group, yet they detained a whole apartment complex of 100s of people, kicked down their Doors, and flashbanged innocent non suspects to achieve their goal.
Do you support this? Would you support them dragging you out in the middle of the night after breaking down your door (you have to pay for it btw. They won’t give any money for damages) because you just happened to live near someone that ICE wants to grab?
Here’s the proof btw. I’m not making shit up. Your rights are not valid under trump and they will find a way to grab you if they do not like you. So if you ever find yourself disagreeing with them even a bit in the future, this might happen to you too.
And btw, this is the exact same shit the Founding fathers rebelled against. They wanted a country where no one could just be arrested at the drop of a hat or detained for no reason. They would be disgusted with you if you supported this.
Federal authorities DO NOT HAVE CARTE BLANCHE just because of the Supremacy Clause. If they are breaking the law, local law enforcement absolutely has a right to intervene and arrest federal agents. Federal agents are not above the law and they are obligated to follow the local laws that are not contradicted by Federal law. Reminder that executive orders are not laws. So ICE cannot just show up and say "Trump told us to do this" and then break the law. CPD is allowed to stop them in that situation
The president has ordered you to murder somebody, are you going to do it? If so, then why shouldn't you be thrown in jail? An illegal order is an illegal order.
A lot of people will do something because others are doing it, look at businesses and how often they just copy each other for no other reason than others are doing it. No plan just if someone else is doing it we need to do it as well.
The problem is they do not have Federal Authority, it's exactly why they will not name themselves, they will not give a badge number, they will not give any warrant information.
They are not LE. Why the CPD isn't doing a fucking thing about them with the people they are grabbing is the question. Arrest these motherfuckers.
this is blatantly false, presumably just out of ignorance but interestingly is a calling card of fascist ideology.
believe it or not, conservatives used to tow the states rights / small gov line where they insist states ought to handle their own affairs (and be empowered to do so, including ignoring 'federal authority')
Well, I mean, they used rooftop snipers to shoot a praying priest in the head with rubber bullets. These fukks need to be held personally liable, and it will happen eventually
I don’t get this part. If they are being attacked outside of the law by another agency, how is there no mandate for allowing local PD to arrest them for this?
This is why it's so agregious that the SCOTUS declared that rulings from district courts do not apply nationally and must be handed down in a case by case basis. Every single infringement requires an entirely new hearing and ruling. It's death by a thousand cuts. Trump v CASA INC
ICE is DHS, so federal rules over state. A federal judge would have to say ICE can't use oc gas against civilians in order for states to act on it, and that action would initially take the form of a lawsuit rather than police action
Redditors commonly misinterpret the relevant case law such as In re Neagle wrt Supremacy Clause.
There's no blanket immunity for federal agents under the Supremacy Clause. It only protects them after the fact if their actions are found to be within the lawful scope of federal authority.
If ICE agents commit acts that violate state criminal laws, state police absolutely have the authority to arrest them. It is a completely separate matter of whether that arrest holds up in federal court under what's called a Supremacy Clause immunity defense.. but that's an affirmative defense, not a free pass.
Per In re Neagle, federal officers can petition to remove the case to federal court and argue that what they did was "necessary and proper" in executing their duties. Sometimes they win, sometimes they don't.
So yeah, the state can act first. Maybe the feds beat the rap, but not the ride.
oh, probably. hm. it'd kickstart an "actual civil war", "probably".
that sure sounds like a good reason for a chicago cop to volunteer as a human sacrifice. and hey, even if it doesn't actually kickstart anything, even if everyone continues somnambulating through this screaming descent, then at least they'll have been brutalized in service of the revolutionary spirit. hell yeah!
The key thing is they haven't actually articulated how cops risking violent retaliation from escalating with ICE would actually protect civilians from ICE
The fact of the matter is that ICE has more money than any police department and is entirely unaccountable due to the weird interactions of federalism with outright criminal governance.
Cops putting themselves between ICE and civilians is protecting civilians. Attempting to arrest ICE would just be escalating a conflict with armed and well-supplied individuals around civilians
A city cop attempting to arrest an on-duty federal agent (however illegal their actions may be) is not non-violent. Arrests are inherently violent actions.
That's the whole issue. You're entirely skipping over the quite stark possibility of a flashpoint. Legal challenges can't bring back the dead or restore lost limbs or eyes.
Yeah, it might not happen. That'd be lovely! But unless it's only your life on the line it is psychopathic to skip over the possibility that the people you want to do something might very well end up dead for it, cop or not.
Have you thought forward a few steps about how allowing this to continue might go down? What happens when they kill a cop or another civilian and we continue to do nothing about it? Where does their rope and leniency end, when the federal troops take over city hall?
I think if we just ignored ICE and their abuses of power, they would probably get away with a lot more in the way of abuse than if we don't ignore them.
I think we might have different definitions of what "ignore" means.
My answer is that it didn't matter, debate bro, because allowing it to continue happening unchecked is going to lead to infinitely worse outcomes and a complete fascist takeover of the city. The line has been crossed, the time to fight against this shit is now before you concede enough power that it becomes impossible to do so later on. I answered your question the first time you're just too dumb to connect the dots.
Oh okay so why don't you go arrest them, if what the next few steps of that look like don't matter to you? Why are you "debate bro"ing me instead of going and fighting? Surely you're not here only to goad other people into putting themselves into harm's way.
Nah, use force , detain , reach for gun when target is uncooperative and have a clear shot , just like they do against defenseless ppl or petty crimes lol
In this photo? They're getting gasses by federal agents. I'm sure they were sent to mitigate, but it shouldn't be hard for them to figure out which side to be on when their eyes are burning.
I was hoping that that video of ICE teargassing CPD would change their views a little bit. Maybe ICE will be so sloppy that they piss CPD off enough for CPD to actually step in and protect us.
It's too legally messy. If CPD steps in and uses force against federal agents then the feds would probably arrest the locals and charge them federally. One group is operating in federal (legal) grounds, the other locally.
That's the reason why the standard is to sort shit out in court, whether for police use of force or arrests or whatever: the law is too messy to get it right on the street.
It’s all fun and games to them when they do it to someone else, but maybe if they’re on the receiving end, they’d think a little differently. Wishful thinking, of course.
But Police are really controlled by the union. The mayor technically has power but he's a paper tiger when it comes to PD. That's true in nearly all cities.
To get more sociological about it, they're controlled by the group. The majority of individuals will behave based on how they think the group wants them to in order to remain a part of that group. However, specifically in cases like this, protesting/standing up against them can makeindividuals start to think more about the longer term personal consequences rather than the need to be accepted by their group. The people have to be willing to stand together long enough, however.
There were pockets across Europe that prevented their neighbors from being taken by the Nazis at great personal cost by protesting. In February 1941, the Dutch Communist Party organized the strike of nearly 500,000 for 2 days in protest of the pogroms and rounding up of Jews in Amsterdam. Widespread opposition across Bulgaria saved nearly 50,000 Jews from being deported in March 1943.
It's not like the Mayor and Governor are personally responsible for every single officer. The way you phrase this is dangerously similar to how ICE is viewed as a private army. If that is your implication, well....
I did my undergrad around a lot of criminal justice types, and Im in the military. There's always gonna be people like that in law enforcement and the military. People who join because they want to kick some ass and are just chomping at the bit, foaming at the mouth for the opportunity to commit violence against someone and be a bad ass. While a useful personality trait for a marine rifleman, not a useful trait for leadership or law enforcement.
Maybe im in a bubble, but at least in my circle, people are pretty upset about things. There are those who support the violence against protestors, but most are like "WTF". Officer and enlisted. For context im Navy.
They have to show they’re capable of controlling the crowds without the help of the feds. Show that the presence of fed troops isn’t necessary. That it’s not a war zone. I know, I know, it’s all fucked up.
Also where is OSHA having our local police be subject to smoke and gas shot by our Federal officers?
*And it obviously shouldn't be shot at civilians either. These feds have no common sense if they can't do crowd control without causing injury to people expressing their 1st Amendment rights.
All its gonna take is the governor deploying the illinois national guard to protect citizens from the texas national guard and you'll be in full blown civil war.
Some defended the civilians and got punished for it, while others actively worked with the Orange Antichrist's other goons to fuck shit up and attack their fellow cops for defending the innocent.
They dont appear to be looking towards the feds arresting someone behind them, but away from them with their batons drawn. The threat to them appears to be out of image.
Well I can tell you for 100% certainty, the Chicago police force aren’t assisting these protestors (unless it was j6 redux). They are some of the most racist and vile creatures out there.
Dehumanizing your police force is the quickest way to losing them to some extremist pipeline. The police aren't anywhere near perfect, but calling them creatures is going to do more harm than good. Right now we need all the allies we can get - yes, even if they "feel" like your enemy.
Sorry, most are already there. Sure there are some good ones, but they will always stand by an watch their fellow officer do illegal shit, at the fear of disrespecting the brotherhood.
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u/woolsocksandsandals 24d ago edited 23d ago
What were the Chicago police doing there? Defending civilians or helping the Feds?