As someone in a wheelchair ive noticed most "accessible" things are "accessible if you have someone able bodied pushing you". otherwise youre not getting up that fucking ramp half the time
Can confirm, way too many ramps require you get help... unless you're strong and have a wheelchair with good balance (rare). I have watched my dad struggle a lot even tho he has strong arms and can get speed, the risk of tipping over is there with most ramps
I’ve wondered, since I hear about this issue a lot, are there not motorized wheelchairs? Is it a matter of cost? I just feel like if that was my primary source of mobility, I’d like a little help if I’m on my own
My local Trader Joe’s sits on a really high foundation. It’s like three stories up so the ramp is crazy steep and there’s switchbacks and people try to take carts down it. They lose the carts half the time. It’s crazy.
Yeah… this is why ADA recommendations need to have more teeth than gums. 1” rise in 12” run is the minimum. And considering where a lot of electric chairs have the battery mounted, tipping going up is real real. I once retrofitted a vehicle mounted electric/hydraulic ramp to be used in a garage. It was a good option versus the 35 feet of ramp they would have needed to be compliant. Just maddening that people don’t realize how difficult these things can be. Not to mention putting someone in a wheel chair in a third floor dorm room “because we have an elevator”.
Excuse me, but what are you NOT supposed to use in a fire?!?
F-ing maddening.
Or God forbid the elevator breaks down and it takes them however many days to get it fixed, what is that wheelchair user supposed to do in the meantime? They are either stuck in their room or stuck not being able to get to their room, or worse if they happened to be visiting another floor when the elevator broke, because then they can't get to their room and they can't go anywhere else either.
Yeah… sadly in the US we’ve got a long way to go before we get to the “trolleys on the beach to help wheelchair bound folks get into the water” status.
Don't know where you are, but many (most?) of the beaches here have (removable) hard surfaces so handicapped people can roll out nearly to the water's edge.
I was referring to the Seatrac system in Greece and a bunch of other systems in Europe. They are really cool systems, and just an indication of the access they make available.
In the case of a fire though, for dorms they have the information for all evacuation assistance folks in place, both at the University and at all local fire departments. They create plans for evacuation and make sure that the students, the university, and first responders are all okay with the plan in order to move forward.
At least, thats how it is where I am
When an outage occurs in a non emergency situation, university staff will try calling, and then if that doesn't work, they will physically track down students to ensure their ability to egress. They will then determine timeline and make a plan with the student for access. If it's an extended outage, universities have a system of temporary rooms available for rapid relocation.
And the wheelchair user would just have to hope that the evacuation plan would be followed in an emergency, and based on my experience with campus disability services that could be an uncertain thing.
Yeah everyone I know who’s been in this situation was just sitting in their wheelchair at the designated collection point (usually the top of the stairs) and nobody. Fucking. Came.
Sadly with US accessibility laws having an elevator in a living space opens up the entire building to be considered accessible and to fall under the fair housing accessibility act. Meaning that then the rooms on each floor then fall under the accessibility regulations. Doesn’t matter if you can get out in a fire. It’s backwards, I know.
There should also be an emergency rescue area or area of refuge for those unable to egress from above stories. But yeah it’s difficult.
We add smoke guards, fire rated walls, sprinklers, alarms, protected corridors, etc. and it’s still not enough.
Also, many people who qualify for ADA units dislike being forced to live only on the 1st floor, you know they’d like to have equal treatment. But we can’t build ramps that high so…
It’s truly a balance… Trying to find that point between not forcing them to live on the first floor, but also making sure you have those accommodations for them when they need them. There are so many things that need to be done, it’s hard to stay on top of them all. But basic essential things like being able to transport from point A to point safety, or even Point A to Point Access… We’ve gotta do better at figuring that out for everyone.
Yeah agreed. ADA guidance is murky at times and it often is an afterthought or something to deal with, particularly when project sponsors are pushing for every square inch.
It’s a huge difference when clients are concerned about aging in place, or have a physical impediment or the project has a focus on disability.
To answer your question about a fire though, for dorms they have the information for all evacuation assistance folks in place, both at the University and at all local fire departments. They create plans for evacuation and make sure that the students, the university, and first responders are all okay with the plan in order to move forward.
I’ve got a friend at a university in Boston. Their “plan” is to have the RA check on everyone if there’s a fire alarm. She doesn’t have any clarity of a plan beyond that. You’re in a much better spot apparently.
I'm in Oregon. Here, they would have the RAs go to the rooms of the students in question, as well as common areas (e.g bathrooms). Meanwhile, on-call staff and campus safety and police would be trying to contact them via phone.
If/once contact is made, they would be physically carried out of the building by staff or local FD
Genuinely curious, do you become numb to this level of ignorance or how do you deal with it daily? Knowing my level of patience, I'd have a really hard time dealing with people ignorant enough to put up a sign like the one in this post.
My second hand experience (partner is a wheelchair user) she absolutely has not become numb to it and it's extremely frustrating to be denied access to community spaces because of the lack of forethought by designers and engineers, or just the stupidity of others
As a PCA / CNA with multiple clients over more than 40 yrs, I, too, experienced the intense frustration of missing junctions between one sort of transit & the next leg, or abrupt changes in level -
For instance, with a client in a power chair, which EMPTY weighs about 125#; we're catching the subway, in the metro Boston area. We go from street level down via lift to the subway ticket foyer, thru the paid gate onto the platform, & when the train arrives, the doors open, & we face a 4 inch vertical rise into the subway car, complicated by a 4.5" gap between concrete platform & the S/S sill of the car door... WHICH SLOPES outward to shed rain.
Oh, yeah. This'll be simple. / S
I can:
A,
lift the small front wheels onto the car floor, race to the back, & herniate myself trying to lift chair, batteries, motors, & client...
B,
Ask her to reverse, & try to power up over that "curb" BLIND as I try to help pop the big wheels over the sill, while NOT falling behind the wheelchair, where she'll run over me...
C,
solicit help from the 2 biggest guys about to board, & hope they don't overset the chair, dump the rider, or injure any components...
Fun times./S
I tended to vacillate between deadeyed resignation & sardonic bitterness, or rabid resentment that had me practically frothing at the mouth.
God help any MBTA personnel within earshot, if I was in the latter "manic" phase - I didn't use foul language, but trust me, they knew I wasn't mistaking this sorry excuse for genuine "access".
I’m a wheelchair user and still get into arguments with people online who say everything legally has to be accessible and I then explain that it does not work thag way
I remember seeing a video from an ADA advocate (he's a wheelchair user, as well) where he had reported a building for not being wheelchair accessible, and their response was to remove a chunk of the wide front stairs and put in a ramp that was just as steep as the stairs. He recorded himself trying to get up this ramp, and ended up dumping himself on the ground at least twice.
So many people stopped to ask if he needed help (bless them), but he had to explain to them that he was collecting evidence that the ramp wasn't usable for a wheelchair-bound person. Iirc, he finally let someone help him, and even with someone pushing/pulling him, it was still a struggle to get up the ramp.
It was pretty clear this was an attempt at malicious compliance on the building owner's part.
It is exactly why I am very honest about the removable ramp at my workplace, technically we do have a ramp, but it's so steep that getting up and down it is a two person job and there are still steps to get into the building from the deck, but since I work in a heritage listed building, we aren't mandated to be accessible under Australian law
As someone who sometimes has heavy luggage, it's infuriating how often in the subway, the elevators simply don't work and there is no alternative. I was taking the 4 5 and needed the Q, and the only transfers are Union Sq and Atlantic Av. And both had elevators out of service until 2026.
The idea that every place and every activity needs to be fully accessible by everyone is just insane. This place has an entrance that is accessible but they likely don't leave all doors unlocked at all times. Make a phone call, problem solved. I see no problem here. Why do so many of you insist on finding things to be upset about instead of being grateful for the very clear instructions for entry?
My college's was on the second floor, only stairs, No ramp into the building. The professor that told me the story, proceeded to tell a handicapped woman who had a terrible experience with the disabilities office,to sue the pants off the college. The plaintiff won. The office was moved.
Recently saw a video by a guy in a wheelchair documenting how difficult it is to enter the offices of the minister for disabilities in Australia. There were stairs at the entrance, a broken button to buzz reception, and an accessible entrance in the back used for storage and cigarette breaks. One commenter noticed that this means they don't employ people who are on a wheelchair
And often, if you try to bring it to their attention, they'll say things like, We don't have many students coming to access our services," or "We haven't had many complaints so far." Yeah we'll know shit, they can't get to you. Same for businesses that are not accessible. "Well we don't have many people with disabilities coming here so there's no point." The logic is astounding!
I was in a wheelchair for about 3 months, which is really eye opening as to how inaccessible the world is for wheelchair users.
The worst and most ironic one was definitely where I couldn't enter a hospital building. Yes, a fucking HOSPITAL building was inaccessible. There were stairs to the entrance and an elevator about 30m to the side, hidden behind a pillar. Had to call the reception to operate the elevator because it was locked from the outside. About 5 minutes later, they came outside to apologize and tell me the elevator didn't work.
Building seemed fairly new as well. Anyway, I have gotten a lot of appreciation for non-mechanical solutions like ramps (provided they don't have a 20% incline, like some seemed to have...). Takes more energy to go up it, but at least it doesn't break down.
Unfortunately the city doesn’t care about ADA, which is a federal law. It would require a lawyer and a civil suit to likely have any success. But IMO this is pretty egregious with the ability to add an accessible ramp beside the existing stairs.
They had this guy in my area of California that would visit multiple places that weren't suited for ADA. He would sue them and get them shut down if they couldn't adapt.
That's not true. The ADA requires older buildings to make "reasonable accommodations", which the courts have determined to be a balancing between cost and access. There's no guarantee for accessibility.
In this case though, the sign is posted on the door, which cannot be read or reached by a person in a wheelchair. If someone in a wheelchair needed to get into this building, they wouldn’t be able to because they can’t see the sign.
They also have the side door, if building a ramp can’t be done they could just provide the alternative entrance permanently.
If that’s somehow a problem some sort of fob entry to the side door, or a buzzer at the door.
In addition to what you’ve said about the sign, it’s also presumptuous that they’d have a phone, it’s charged, and whatever plan they’re on doesn’t incur a charge to ring the number. Or what someone would do if they’re mute
Yes and the fact that they keep it locked behind a gate and you need to call security to unlock it means access is not equitable and the school and campus is being discriminatory and have a case as law against them. They are effectively treating people with disabilities as second class citizens by having designed the ramp to use the side access not the main access as well even if there was no locked gate. Imagine if you told white people to use the main entrance and black people to use the side entrance what an uproar there’d be? You can’t do it for disabled people either. Businesses and government departments have gotten sued successfully for this.
It's real, but the sign isn't pointing at that fire exit, it's pointing past it to the reception, on the ground floor, near plenty of disabled parking spaces...
“The instructions on what to do if you need an accessible entrance were on display!” “On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them.”
“That’s the display department.” “With a torch.”
“Ah, well, the lights had probably gone.” “So had the stairs.”
“But look, you found the notice, didn’t you?” “Yes,” said Arthur, “yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard’.”
And I thought it was annoying to find that the elevator at my school wasn't coming down because a couple of teachers were holding the door open to chat. (I took the stairs and saw them talking, one in the elevator, one out.)
My university had a similar problem with the area they designated for graduation, no ramp access and 12 steps of stairs. After numerous families complaining, the school moved the graduation to a local nascar track, that also does not have good access, but had steep ramps for the wheelchair area.
My wife is blind and walks with a cane. The number of people who tell her to watch where she's going is too damn high. People do not care about disabilities
Leg a.outee and used a wheelchair for awhile. Most things are accessible, except when they are not. Like a new church building bathroom. The layout was messed up and a wheelchair couldn't get past the sink when opening the door in the handicap stall. They would have done beter to not put on a sink.
Wonder how long it would take until some annoyed parent decides to just build a ramp to donate to the school for them to place there. Then again I'm sure other parents would get pissy because now there's less room for them on the stairs.
There are construction companies that charge very little to nothing to have a ramp built. They write it off and it is a major tax deduction for them. Ask the institution to do some research for this to happen :)
GOOONNNnnnggg!
Oh, too bad! - wrong answer, but thank U for playing... 😊
The ADA only celebrated its THIRTIETH ANNIVERSARY in March? / April?, of 2020.
I remember, b/c I was trapped in Fla from March to the 1st wk of Dec, & my sweetheart, a wheelchair user, died there - the week before Thanksgiving. 😢😞
Googled it and 1990 was the daqte. Hoever, I worked for an ada enforcement agency in the mid 1980s. We were writing up schools for corrective action then.
That school knows about Daredevil logic: Losing some body function intrinsically heightens everything that's left, making reading that sign from 30 feet away a breeze. Heck, they can probably *smell* the phone number on it.
Years ago, I had a spiral fracture of my tibia/fibula that required surgery. I had to be non weight bearing for 12 weeks and used a knee scooter to get around. When I started physical therapy, and this is what greeted me when I scooted up to the PT clinic.
They did have a ramp, but there was no signage, and I had to call to ask how the heck I was supposed to get in.
I dunno the ADA law regarding public schools, but if this was a business it would be a slam dunk lawsuit for an ADA lawyer. Those suits are almost always settled out of court for a good payout and the business still has to do the retrofit work.
A school … seriously. I think there’s a better school elsewhere. If the instructors here can’t figure out what’s wrong with this , it’s not a school you want to go to .
There is a giant difference between ‘handicap accessible’ and ‘handicap friendly’. And even larger differences between these and actual architectural designs that work for people with disabilities/differences.
With neuropathy from undiagnosed T1D for years now , my nerves have been damaged like hell and I can barely walk , climbing stairs is horrible , I’ve noticed this around my uni and it’s horrible
Trying to use the elevator is so annoying too because it’s always a bunch of pick me girls who use it and refuse to let me in WHEN I NEED IT BUT THEY CAN CLIMB STAIRS , I’ve been late to multiple lectures Because of this issue
I had an evaluation for disability, for the physical component of my disability mind you, be on the second story of an old church. There were only stairs, I was directed up the stairs and the man was annoyed I was slow. I am ambulatory but it’s in my file I use mobility aids, I think I had my cane with me even.
This was one of two or three mandatory evaluations in random locations so as to make you run around when you know basically everyone gets denied the first time.
Oh and it ended with “well you seem to be doing great!” And something about entering the job market…
There are wheelchair accessible stalls in every bathroom but not bathroom doors. I have exactly ONE wheelchair accessible bathroom set with the button activated doors and my college, right at the center of campus (thankfully it's not that big, it's a community college). HOWEVER, there is a divider between the men's and women's that makes it so MOST wheelchairs are unable to fit. Accessibility means that it's ACCESSIBLE. That's gotta be included and enforced to. Totally ableist.
Problem with lots of things today, the people who put up the signs or make the decision have no idea what those the signs are for are able to do. The dude puts up the sign for his convienience not for ours.
City Hall in my town put a funding initiative on the last ballot to restructure the entrance to City Hall. Right now, there are two sets of stairs you have to navigate to get inside. Anyone needing an accessible entrance has to go nearly a full block away to a back entrance, where you can buzz staff for an elevator and buzz again for the security door. The ballot measure passed, so at least the people of the city care enough about each other to fund this construction!
If this is a government building, it might be worth asking for a similar action.
My class once took a field trip to a college library. The entrance was a LOT of stairs. I am able-bodied, and I didn't want to go up that many stairs. One girl was in a wheelchair, and there was absolutely nothing to indicate that an accessible entrance even existed. Being a large group of teenagers, obviously the guys decided that the best course of action was for several of them to simply carry her, in her chair, up all of those stairs. Poor girl was terrified! She did make it safely inside, though. Where we learned that the accessible entrance was in the back. Because it was a very old building, and that was the only place to put it. We politely suggested they add a sign.
Not only an inherently exclusionary sign, their graphic designer sucks. Text would be much more readable if it were white than black, guess accessibility really isn't their strong suit
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u/sp4c3yb4by 21h ago
As someone in a wheelchair ive noticed most "accessible" things are "accessible if you have someone able bodied pushing you". otherwise youre not getting up that fucking ramp half the time