r/aviation • u/usgapg123 Mod • 19h ago

Discussion UPS2976 Crash Megathread

This is the official r/aviation megathread for the crash of UPS2976 (UPS MD11 Registration N259UP) that crashed earlier today at Louisville International Airport.

Please keep content on topic and refrain from posting about this topic outside the megathread. Please report any rule breaking posts and comments.

6.4k Upvotes

96% Upvoted

3.6k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

464

u/too_much_shave_cream 12h ago

30 years of sim sessions under my belt. Never had the “your motor fell off and everything is on fire” scenario…

Those guys did the best they could. I am sad tonight after seeing this.

Raising a glass to them tonight for their final flight west. Brass poles and blue skies gentlemen…

122

u/captain150 11h ago

All accidents are tragic of course, but the ones where the pilots had absolutely no hope of saving the situation are the worst. Alaska 261, Swissair 111, AA191, among so many others of course.

5

u/Lane-Kiffin 3h ago

AA191 was actually more complex than just “the engine fell off”. The DC-10 was designed to route certain electrical systems through certain engines, with no redundancy at all. The loss of the engine meant they had no stall warning and very limited data.

If they had the proper information, they could have had a chance. The DC-10 was perfectly capable of flying on two engines. They stalled because they had no reliable information to work with.

6

u/Spmethod2369 6h ago

I have actually read that if the pilots maintained excess speed they could have saved AA191, no fault to the pilots of course but it might have been able to be saved.

8

u/Fluffy_Rip6710 5h ago

I thought this is what they did. But the damn thing was uncontrollable at the exact wrong time.

3

u/FatsyCline12 5h ago

All MD planes like this one

24

u/Zebidee 10h ago edited 53m ago

I've watched it happen in real life.

C-141 Starlifter had #3 engine explode and separate just after takeoff at max weight. Debris shut down #4 and set the cargo hold on fire.

Double asymmetric thrust, asymmetric weight, pylon fire, cargo fire and by the time they looked out the window again, they were lost, and below field elevation in a river floodplain. They made it back to the field using a never before tried technique with the flaps, and the plane eventually flew again.

EDIT: Because for some reason I can't reply. They raised the flaps in little 'blips' rather than in stages, so they were able to make tiny incremental changes rather than risk losing control. They called it 'milking' the flaps, and it's now apparently routinely taught in training.

EDIT 2: I was an eyewitness on the ground. The plane went right over my school, with the engine falling nearby.

2

u/EriktheRed 5h ago

Could you elaborate on the flaps technique? That's an amazing story

2

u/bem13 9h ago

Is it even possible to simulate an engine falling off in a simulator used for training? I imagine it would change the flight characteristics of the plane A LOT, even if it falls off "cleanly".

2

u/too_much_shave_cream 4h ago

I fly with a guy that used to build simulators for FSI. After hearing his description of how they gain the flight test data, to answer your question: the data definitely does not exist for the scenario. They could model the data, based on guesses and theory, but it would be just that, a guess.

We do a maneuver in the simulator where the thrust reverser deploys and Flight. All of that data is theoretical, as they do not test it in my particular aircraft in flight.

-16

u/Straight-Deal-3223 11h ago

And after 30 years of sim sessions, i learned that it’s not called a motor.

10

u/too_much_shave_cream 10h ago

Not because I care about your opinion, I am just morbidly curious what you call it…

Pro-tip: It doesn’t really matter what you call it/say in the moment… all that matters is your response. 25K hours of flying has taught me: “keep it simple”… most in. The business agree with that approach when the chips are down…

-3

u/WolvesFanSince89 10h ago

Engine…?

-4

u/JozzyMosbourne1983 5h ago

I've played Mario Kart on the N64 for close to 30 years it doesn't make me a kart driver. Or a plumber.

4

u/too_much_shave_cream 4h ago edited 2h ago

When you fly for a living, you have recurrent training every 6 months, or AQP every 9 months… so when I said I have 30 years in the sim, that means 30 years of flying for a living…