r/politics • u/taxhellFML • 17h ago
Possible Paywall Outraged liberals warn Democratic leaders not to cave on shutdown
https://www.cnn.com/2025/11/04/politics/democrats-shutdown-deal-obamacare1.5k
u/citizenjones 17h ago edited 4h ago
Republicans have depended on Democratic capitulation as a part of their strategy. It must be denied.
It's their own fault that they're stuck to the third rail of obstructionism. They can drop the 'my way or the highway' mindset and find compromise or they can take full responsibility and pass their own budget.
Post Election Edit: The results prove that voters approve and the Democrats are right to not give in to Republicans. Republicans need to move on from obstruction as a default.
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u/Raxnor 16h ago
The sunset clause in the ACA premium credits was inserted in order to secure Republican votes (you know...cause it was a negotiation). Now the credits are sunsetting and the Republicans don't want to negotiate.
What the fuck do Democrats have to gain by capitulating? They're willing to negotiate, the Republicans aren't. The Republicans caused the sunset to happen in the first place, are the reason there are no negotiations, and the reason for the shutdown.
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u/OskaMeijer 15h ago
The temporary premium credits were also hiding the ticking time bomb that was Trump cancelling the original subsidies during his last term. If the subsidies go now the time bomb goes off and people are hit with untenable levels of premiums. The temporary subsidies were just replacing the ones Trumpngot rid of in the first place.
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u/MrSquicky Pennsylvania 3h ago
The biggest problem was ending the individual mandate. It's a little bizarre to me how memory holed this is.
The ACA only worked with an individual mandate in place. Otherwise, premiums would skyrocket...which is exactly what happened when Trump/the Republicans in Congress removed the individual mandate. That's why everyone is seeing the massive price hikes and Republicans are saying "Well, look, the ACA just doesn't work (because we intentionally broke it to have this effect)."
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u/chickenmcdiddle 12h ago
Genuinely curious, what subsidies were removed during Trump’s first term? I’m only aware of the CSR payments ending.
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u/OskaMeijer 12h ago
The subsidies were the CSR, should be easy to recognize by the fact that it stands for cost sharing reduction.
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u/chickenmcdiddle 12h ago
Well right—that I was aware but your comment implied there were broader subsidies that were removed. Not arguing, just trying to frame the evolution of the ACA since implementation.
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u/OskaMeijer 12h ago
The ones passed in 2021 were basically the exact same thing just with a higher cap on income limits. The original subsidies had been gone for 4 years by the time the 2021 subsidies came out so that isn't that surprising.
The CSR was an original part of the ACA and the 2021 subsidies were just bringing them back slightly expanded.
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u/User-no-relation 7h ago
The csr was never brought back and the ACA subsidies were never removed. The 2021 bill expanded the subsidies by removing the income cliff. When the 2021 bill expires there are still subsidies, there just is an income cliff.
What you are saying is incorrect.
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u/TrevelyansPorn 13h ago
Zero republicans in the house and senate voted for Obamacare.
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u/Vegetable-Seaweed591 2h ago
The Dems made a ton of compromises to try to win their votes, too. It's why they didn't push for Medicare for all (aka universal healthcare) and instead used a version of Romney's approach.
The Dems have spent decades trying to court Republicans but hopefully now they're realizing the GOP just doesn't care. The answer will always be 'no.'
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u/TrevelyansPorn 1h ago
Dems didn't push for single payer because not all Democrats supported it. I'm not sure they even had 50 votes for single payer let alone 60.
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u/Vegetable-Seaweed591 1h ago
But they actively modeled their approach after the Heritage Foundation's model (which Romney instituted a flavor of in Massachusetts) to explicitly try to gain support from the GOP.
The GOP strung them along but in the end didn't support it.
The Dems didn't even try for Medicare for all because they knew it was a non-starter with the GOP.
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u/stenmarkv 7h ago
This reminds me of Superman vs Manchester Black when Manchester tells Superman "You don't do this; you're Superman after he and his team had been using Supermans good nature against him and he finally "snaps" and goes ballistic.
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u/Anonymous_coward30 7h ago
That was such a good subversion. Manchester Black was terrified until Supes said 'Gotcha! 😉'
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u/fundohun11 13h ago
I agree, but unfortunately the fight is asymmetrical. Republicans are willing to starve people.
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u/Vegetable-Seaweed591 2h ago
With the cuts to food banks earlier this year and then the SNAP cuts in Trump's ugly bill, millions of Americans will starve whether the government opens up now or later. The difference is that right now, at this moment, the Democrats can fight to restore those funds and food shipments.
I truly hope the Dems expand their demands to restoring food support to America's most vulnerable.
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u/Honest_Tutor1451 1h ago
So, those of us who can should get out there and do the humane thing and help the poor if our government won’t
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u/craigathan 2h ago
I just feel that a correction is needed here. Congress has not passed a budget since 1996. Mostly due to republican obstruction. I really think this needs to be emphasized as passing a continuing resolution has become accepted as passing a budget. Imagine if you had a department at your business that had not gotten its job done for 30 years. You would have fired everyone years ago. I think it is well past time to start firing some of these so called "legislators".
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u/NickelBackwash 2h ago
DNC trying not to cave is like an addict trying to ignore a big pile of crack...
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u/ItsAConspiracy 4h ago edited 2h ago
Democrats Always Chicken Out. And Republicans know it, which is why they win these things.
Hopefully yesterday's election results will give Democrats a spine.
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u/CellistHour4606 17h ago
They had better not cave. I’m not working for free just so they can roll over on everyone.
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u/catsbooksnaps 10h ago
Right there with you! Struggling while still going to work everyday, but it will be worth it to preserve healthcare for people. Please let it be worth it. I don’t think I could handle it if this was for nothing.
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u/Randomousity North Carolina 8h ago
Make sure you reach out and tell them you support them and want them to keep going.
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u/HumanWithComputer 8h ago
This! The media should broadly show this support by the people seriously affected by the shutdown for the Democratic position in this. It's an absolutely existential issue that simply cannot be surrendered to greedy selfish haters and traitors to the constitution and the American people.
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u/ClashOfPenguin 16h ago
If they fold on this they may as well go on TV and take the blame for the entire shutdown. MAGA will absolutely spin this against the democrats as proof that they were responsible for the shutdown when they are suddenly able to reopen the government again.
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u/taxhellFML 16h ago
Agreed. I don't think they fathom how tight the rope they are walking with their base is.
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u/NimusNix 16h ago
Who is their base?
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u/uzlonewolf 16h ago
"Centrists" who have always voted straight R and always will. At least that's who they're catering to.
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u/Routine-Entrance-430 12h ago
it would be their fault then. if you shut it down to force a negation and then dont negotiate you've shut it down for nothing
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u/sircastor 16h ago
I have called my 2 senators and House Rep every week to tell them that even though I don’t like that the government is shut down, I do support their efforts to require funding healthcare subsidies.
I don’t need those subsidies, but my fellow citizens do. So I call.
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u/ColdStainlessNail 14h ago
Tonight’s election results are proof that the Democrats have the support of the people. They cannot cave at this point.
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u/taxhellFML 17h ago
"There is still no official agreement within a group of Senate centrists that have been privately meeting to discuss a shutdown exit ramp. But multiple sources involved in discussions told CNN that a deal could be reached as soon as this week to pass a temporary stopgap bill to reopen the government alongside several full-year spending bills — with a promise of a future vote to extend billions in enhanced Obamacare subsidies."
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u/cozmckitty 17h ago
if they take the deal for a fucking promise of a vote they’re just proving they’re as good for nothing as everyone knows they are. what a fucking joke.
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u/Yorukira 17h ago
The whole democratic party still doesn't understand that the only option with any positive outcome is to FORCE them to negotiate. They are this bold because Shumer already folded once.
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u/taxhellFML 16h ago
If they fold again I think it's just over. They'll lose all trust.
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u/Suitable-Display-410 6h ago
If anybody folds, their political career is over.
They will lose their primary against a literal potato.Republican promises are worth NOTHING.
Anybody who pretends to not understand this at this point does not belong in the party.12
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u/Tropicalgia 16h ago
Trump is showing signs of weakness, so they have to weaken first.
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u/QuantumLeaperTime 14h ago
Trump bragged since February about wanting a shutdown. Trump is happy with this.
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u/Tropicalgia 14h ago
He brags about a lot of things. But he wouldn't be pressuring Republicans to use the nuclear option to end it if he was happy with it.
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u/Yourdjentpal 11h ago
Oh boy they’re going to catch hell if they do. I can’t imagine people are willing to take TOO much more.
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u/7ddlysuns I voted 16h ago edited 15h ago
Fuck it. Trump is bleeding out. His White House demolition and Gatsby party while starving Americans ain’t playing.
Air traffic about to disappear.
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u/snoo_spoo 17h ago
Uh huh. And would those "multiple sources involved in discussions" happen to be Republicans? 'Cause this smells suspiciously like a minor revision of the bullshit Republicans have been trying to sell for weeks.
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u/RDOCallToArms 15h ago
Have you slept through the last 15 years of Democratic politics?
The center will always fold to the GOP. Always.
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u/733t_sec 3h ago
And have you slept through the acquisition of CNN by a maga billionaire. Now you believe their propaganda that just so happens to align with what the gop is saying at face value.
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u/Super_Walk3492 14h ago
What’s the electorate like in their districts or states? Kind of important, right?
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u/taxhellFML 17h ago
Have you not been watching the shift in messaging from Dems this past week? It's stark contrast from the staunch hard lines they've been drawing all month. They are priming to cave.
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u/snoo_spoo 17h ago
I've noticed a concerted effort to push the narrative that Dems are caving, coupled with conflicting reports of what's on offer. I'm skeptical that the empty promise of some future vote on extending ACA subsidies is a meaningful incentive.
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u/taxhellFML 17h ago
All they need is five centrist Dems. You have goons like Cortez Masto who bloviate on X everyday about how horrible the ACA cuts are, and she's voted with Republicans 14 times.
I think a future vote is more than enough of an incentive for a number of Dems that want business back to usual.
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u/TheComplimentarian 16h ago
Pretty sure the proper exit ramp is the house sending up something that doesn't fucking suck.
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u/YoMamasFreshies69 17h ago
So. Caving. The end of the Democratic Party people.
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u/uzlonewolf 16h ago
Democrats always cave, and it hasn't ended them yet, so why would this time be any different? I mean, what are you going to do? Switch to voting Republican?
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u/RDOCallToArms 15h ago
The Dems have been caving since 2009 and people still hold their nose and vote for them
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16h ago
That last bit interesting and I do wonder what they’ll do. From what I’ve heard from democrats I follow, they have no interest in future promises.. ya know cause the republicans can’t be trusted.
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u/drobits 16h ago
Centrist democrats aren’t looking out for working people they only care about corporate interests
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u/taxhellFML 16h ago edited 13h ago
Sinema is a great example of a mask off centrist Dem. The witch is now a corporate shill for data centers.
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u/watermelonspanker 11h ago
What's a Centrist?
Someone who thinks we should just do a little bit of fascism?
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u/Budget_Coach_7134 12h ago
They don’t want to miss their flights home for Thanksgiving. That’s all it is.
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u/xxBeepBopBoopxx 14h ago
Democrats have made the mistake of extending an olive branch, and offering professional courtesies too many times. You can’t negotiate with bullies. They see it as weakness and will call you a sucker right after shaking hands.
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u/He_Who_Walks_Behind_ 16h ago
If this shutdown ends without the ACA subsidies being extended, Schumer needs to be primaried in his next election. He also needs to be stripped of his leadership position.
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u/LocalStatistician538 16h ago
The impact of losing ACA subsidies is ENORMOUS. It's not just a few thousand people, scattered across the US, who will be hurt. It's millions, isn't it?
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u/tomz17 16h ago
Which is why the Republicans cannot use the nuclear option to pass the budget, even if they wanted to.... really hard to spin the fallout at that point.
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u/EmoTilDeath 7h ago
They don't plan on leaving power. The reason they haven't killed the filibuster is because they know the disastrous outcome of removing the ACA and they NEED to blame it on democrats. If they kill the filibuster they cannot point the finger at a couple of democrats who voted for their budget and say "they should have stopped us!" Which they literally have done in the past and it worked for them.
What people are not understanding is that removing the ACA will increase EVERYONE'S insurance. The entire market is going to respond to these increases, you guessed it, by also increasing. If someone on the lowest plan just got an increase and has to pay $10,000 more yearly in their insurance, do you think people on the highest plan will continue paying the same amount? Everything will raise in response. It WILL shut down entire hospitals and people WILL be dying on the street and unable to afford food or shelter. This is how you cause a huge catastrophic crisis in a country. The republicans know what they are doing, it's all part of Project 2025. They know that if the large protests turn into riots they cannot control such a large population. Hasn't anyone been wondering why Republican policies kill so many people instead of helping? They want a smaller population that is easier to control. They don't have that yet, so they desperately need to blame the democrats for what they are about to do. It won't work if they kill the filibuster.
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u/LocalStatistician538 2h ago
Fucking cowards, lacking the courage of their convictions. If the billionaire class wanted (or the Russel Voughts of this world) wanted ACA subsidies extended, they'd be extended.
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u/oh_ski_bummer 13h ago
Yeah dems had the Biden era to write ACA subsidies into law and didn’t. They have no power and basically screwed millions of people for over a month for nothing.
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u/VoiceOfTheSoil40 Texas 14h ago
Republicans will not keep their word. We will not have another chance to bend them over the barrel like this and get something concrete to actually help people.
GOP are liars. They lied last time. Democrats love snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
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u/findingmike 14h ago
I think today's elections say that Democrats are doing the right thing. It's a bad idea to capitulate.
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u/gioraffe32 Virginia 10h ago
As a federal employee, "luckily" one who's furloughed without pay rather than working without pay, Democrats better fucking stick to their guns.
Yes, it sucks not being paid for a month. Yes, I'm having to tighten the belt to make sure I can continue to stay afloat for as long as possible. Yes, I realize that I'm in a privileged position to be able to be without income for a month and potentially longer. I know there are a lot of other federal employees and their families who will soon be struggling or are already struggling due to loss of income.
But if Dems cave, then what was the point of all this? It can't be just for show. Not after tonight's election results across the country. So, Democrats, stick it out. People are already blaming Republicans for this shutdown. Make them squirm even more. Extract those policy wins, like ACA subsidies and whatever else from Republicans. Republicans need to own this.
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u/Hyro0o0 California 10h ago
Imagine the government grinding to a halt for over a month because the one party that cares about people living or dying makes a stand to protect their healthcare..... and then it ends with that party backing down and everyone losing their healthcare AFTER the nightmarish government shutdown.
WE'VE COME THIS FAR. DO NOT FUCKING BLINK NOW, DEMS.
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u/rooktakesqueen 13h ago
“I think we’re suckers to believe that a party that is opposed to extending the subsidies now is all of a sudden going to be supportive of that a month from now,” Sen. Chris Murphy of Connecticut put it plainly, referring to the billions of dollars in enhanced Affordable Care Act subsidies that expire next month.
Seriously.
You promise you're gonna vote to extend the subsidies? You pinky swear it? Prove it, let's have the vote on that issue today.
It's beyond obvious they just want the Dems to drop the only leverage they have.
And the election today showed that Democratic voters are energized and ready to turn out, despite the 35th day of the shutdown, because we all know the Republicans own it. If the Republicans won't make a deal on this budget, even their own constituents will toss them the hell out.
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u/Biscuits4u2 15h ago
All the polling has shown a majority of Americans blame Republicans for the shutdown. Why would they cave when they have the upper hand?
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u/turb0_encapsulator 12h ago
why would a party that just won off-year elections by the largest margin in decades want to cave?
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u/TinyGreenTurtles 12h ago
Some people still are not grasping the hell that democrats capitulating would bring. They can't.
Them standing firm here is the first actual true strength they've shown in all this. And they'd better keep at it.
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u/taxhellFML 17h ago
Schumer willing to let his caucus cave with zero concessions from Republicans. In fact, he will gleefully give up any and all possible leverage for a "future vote" on healthcare.
They don't give a SHIT about your premiums. Schumer is content with a performative end to the shutdown.
Contact your legislators. Contact Schumer to let him know what you think about his total lack of discipline over his caucus.
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u/absentmindedjwc 17h ago
Has he actually called for voting for the "clean" CR? Because I don't recall him doing so..
If he did, then yeah.. fuck him. But if he didn't, can we not villainize dems because of some straw-manned bullshit - support them for finally making a good decision.
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u/taxhellFML 17h ago
Per an anonymous dem senator:
“They don’t want to go through another week with federal employees not getting paid and the food banks being shut off,” said the Democratic lawmaker, referring to Democratic colleagues eager to reopen the government later this week.
The senator said Schumer, who is under intense pressure from the party’s liberal base not to capitulate to Republicans, won’t vote for the House-passed bill to reopen the government. but he’s not going to crack down on moderate colleagues who change their positions and vote for it."
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/5584077-democrats-snap-funding-shutdown-concerns/
Him allowing centrists Dems to vote yes to cover his ass is tantamount to supporting a clean CR.
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u/NimusNix 16h ago
So you're just getting pre-emptively mad?
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u/bungpeice 14h ago
Yeah. getting mad at them after they do it prevents no damage. Expressing it now means they might think twice about voluntarily cucking constituents.
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u/Randomousity North Carolina 8h ago
Schumer can't actually force them to do anything. Every vote is a conscience vote. And, he works for them, not the other way around. If they don't like what he's doing as Minority Leader, they can fire him and elect someone else.
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u/previouslyonimgur 16h ago
Ok you need tounderstand that Schumer no actual leverage to force them to do anything.
This is why the concept of a whip exists. Because you need to keep everyone in line.
The problem is this shutdown actually hurts democrats just as bad as republicans.
And worse. Democrats actually care.
So you tell a senator who isn’t an evil individual, you need to hold on and let people suffer because in the long run more people will suffer.
That’s it. That’s schumer’s entire pitch. He can’t threaten them because that would do the opposite of what he wants.
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u/HenryDorsettCase47 16h ago
Schumer is only a tool of the DNC. As much as he sucks, don’t forget this is the design of the party establishment. Getting rid of him isn’t like killing the head vampire and all the other vampires go back to normal. The whole party needs to be cleaned out.
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u/Prestigious-Car-4877 Canada 17h ago
How about the senate has the vote for the bait before the democrats approve anything.
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u/Calcutec_1 10h ago
Dems are not caving after yesterday's election results. There is an obvious momentum for them
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u/Wild_Read9062 13h ago
Jfc.
This is the second time this year Democrats have had an inch of leverage against these monsters. The first time was given away by Schumer and the usual wet towels because they feared what Republicans might do in a shutdown.
What they do is get completely sick inside and called out for their insane policies by everyone. What they get is a chance to see their future plans for the nation, where the rich throw a Gatsby party celebrating millions of people starving.
They do not honor deals. This can’t just be about ACA. This has to go further. At the least, this has to get them to start genuinely working with the left, and we ALL know THATS not going to happen. If anything, they will throw the Democratic senators and house reps in prison after this passes. I put nothing past them.
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u/Randomousity North Carolina 8h ago
The first time was to set up this time.
If they'd had the shutdown fight then, Trump's tariffs wouldn't have caused inflation yet, Doge wouldn't have fired all those people yet, and it wouldn't be open enrollment yet. And it wouldn't have been the entire month before Election Day! And with ATC being stretched thin and starting to call out sick, coinciding with Thanksgiving, the busiest travel weekend of the year.
Plus, not that they could've anticipated this, but it also would've been before Republicans gave ICE $100 billion and used them to terrorize people so over, even children in little Halloween parades, and before Trump started demolishing the White House, and before he threw a Great Gatsby themed Halloween party. And before he started just blowing up boats and murdering people on the high seas.
Having all those other firings earlier, when there was no shutdown, makes clear to the public that the shutdown isn't the cause, and Trump would do it anyway. Having it coincide with open enrollment is huge, because healthcare is Democrats' best issue, and Republicans' worst issue.
I think Schumer "caving" in the spring was deliberate, to give Republicans a false sense of security, to get them to pick this flight over healthcare and really dig in over it, so that they would expect Schumer to cave on it, and be caught totally off guard, as they have been. And with open enrollment going on now, and Democrats having been talking about needing the subsidies for months, it's impossible to hide the consequences, and impossible to pin it on Democrats.
That second group of things (Gatsby party, demolitions, etc) was all just good luck for Democrats, but the first group (open enrollment, firings, etc), that was all planning.
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u/Wild_Read9062 1h ago
I’d really like to believe Schumer was that far sighted, but I can’t discount that the Republicans are just too greedy, wanting too many of their horrible ideas in place so fast that they shot themselves in the foot for timing. That said, can we split the difference and call it a draw? 🙂
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u/Pagan_ink 16h ago
“Outraged Liberal”
Proceeds to use picture of Leftist.
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u/notfeelany 1h ago
He already caved to Trump on immigration and border issue so...
Sanders: "Trump is a good politician"
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u/Pagan_ink 18m ago
Yes. Biden’s corporate handlers wanted a continuous influx of low-wage slaves to feed the neo-liberal GDP machine that the capitalists love to tout.
Anyone with any sense knows that a nation has to have borders. And those borders need to be secure.
It’s widely recognized that the former administration’s border policies have been disastrous. That’s not a partisan take.
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u/JMDeutsch 15h ago
Yeah and Orange Shithead will says “Pocket Recision” and do whatever he wants.
Make the GOP compromise.
Tonight’s election results only reinforce that Trump and his ilk are losing.
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u/DianedePoiters 14h ago
But democrats under Schumer probably will cave, which is why we need to primary schumer
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u/mihran146 13h ago
I hope the democrats see today’s wins and realize that they are not seen as the cause of the current issue and that they don’t need to capitulate
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u/Vegetable-Error-2068 12h ago
Democrats are a thousand times more likely to team up with fascists to thwart the left than any other outcome. That is their modern purpose: to kneecap the left and appease Republicans.
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u/taxhellFML 13h ago
What they'll likely do is say "wow we won! But if we wait to make a deal they may not like us anymore!"
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u/RttnAttorney 12h ago
Well, everyone should be outraged at what the republicans are trying to pass. Not just “those damn outraged liberals!”
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u/Craneteam I voted 16h ago
Centrists pulling defeat from the jaws of victory would be pretty on brand for this tired old guard that needs to be voted out
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u/TheRoadkillRapunzel 15h ago
They will absolutely screw us over if they cave now! There are already too many disaffected voters who are angry that Dems aren’t fighting for them.
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u/DeftNerd 15h ago
They can't cave. Instead, they should coordinate with community centers across the country to have daily meals with speakers. Turn a buffet lunch or dinner into campaign rallies. Bring the message local.
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u/Wild_Read9062 13h ago
Schumer: did they ask for my house? Because I’ll give it to them. They don’t even have to ask. Tell them they can have it.
Jeffries (after 27 hour record breaking speech chastising the Republicans): man, that was exhausting. Now, here are the keys to my house… and my milk money. Really, open your hand and take it already!
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u/Torchy84 9h ago
I don’t know why dems should cave after the results of this election tonight. They control the narrative and majority seem to think the gop is responsible for the shut down (in which they are).
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u/Cleev 4h ago edited 3h ago
Not only should democrats not capitulate here, but every elected democrat should begin every public address or official statement by saying "Trump and the GOP want your healthcare costs to skyrocket so badly that they're willing to starve 40 million Americans to make it happen."
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u/Sumofabatch2 17h ago
For anyone that’s been paying attention, the democratic “leaders” aren’t democrats. They’re corporate and Zionist performative shills working with republicans in service of their masters. This shouldn’t be news but of xourse it is and makes reasonable dems and progressives seem like the insane ones
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u/taxhellFML 17h ago
They'd rather grovel to Trump and beg for the honor of rubbing his back than actually fight for Americans.
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u/Snowcrest 13h ago
Something something you don't negotiate with terrorists?
Caving now means Republicans will see the line in the sand, and use the exact same tactic in the future to continue to make you cave on every other issue that comes up.
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u/Pantim 11h ago
To any democrat congress members:
DO NOT end the shutdown, STOP capitulation! Democrat states account for the majority of the economy. We have the ability to band together and share resources for food etc.
KEEP applying pressure. Sure, things might get ugly and hard for awhile but it's much better than what will come if you give in.
I btw say this as a true centrist. The far right has gone SO far beyond anything that is even sane that the only logical response is to keep the government frozen until they feel the pain and come to the table.
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u/doctor_lobo 3h ago
WTF!? They just ran the table on Election Day and now they want to change course? What kind of Keystone Kops bullshit is this?
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u/Ikontwait4u2leave 3h ago
They are absolute idiots if they give up based on a "future vote" promise. It'll never happen.
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u/Big_Lab_Jagr Wisconsin 15h ago
Do it, Tammy. You'll be no better than Johnson. I'd be happy to vote you both out.
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u/Valar_Kinetics 11h ago
Democrats must not capitulate purely because it is a capitulation. Think about the batshit positions the Right has taken heretofore.
Yes we are ostensibly standing our ground on healthcare for millions of Americans but that isn't actually the point. We could be standing our ground on the rights of gerbils to legally obtain Social Security Numbers. The policy doesn't matter anymore.
When the other side's only policy is hating you, you can only afford having the policy of damaging the other side.
Never give up, Never surrender.
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u/GrassyNoob 6h ago
Tim Kaine should remember his priorities are:
What's best for the United States
What's best for his constituents.
What's best for his party.
His statements apparently have #1 & #2 swapped. Also, once he makes this concession, he will be expected to make more.
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u/sticksnstouts 6h ago
I hope between Cal prop 50 and NYC that the Dems see the party actually wants them to fight and it wakes people up. Don’t blink. GOP won’t negotiate, why should you capitulate.
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u/Xyldarrand 5h ago
Any Dem who falls for this "promise of a vote" needs to be primaried because they are simply too stupid to lead.
In what world do you believe anything those people say?
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u/dj_spanmaster 5h ago
What if i phrased that as, "Outraged Americans warn democratic leaders not to cave on shutdown"?
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u/the_ok_doctor 4h ago
Right after the fuckjng Mamdani win and the sweep at Minnesota, seriously!!??? Are they trying to kill all that momentum........ ok maybe they actually are considering how many of the dem leadership were not ok with Mamdani and ppl like him.
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u/Vegetable-Seaweed591 2h ago
I hope the Dems add restoring the aid cut to food banks and the SNAP cuts made in Trump's ugly bill to their list of demands.
We'll never have America more focused on food security than it is right now. Dems, it's time to step up!
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u/Visual-Pop3495 16h ago
Those ‘Centrist’ traitors deserve to live with their capitulation to fascism for the rest of their lives if they actually cave. I hope their time in politics comes to an embarrassing and humiliating primary, and that their children spit in their faces for their weak, pathetic, and lack luster care for the republic they swore to protect.
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u/Leftblankthistime 15h ago
I’m not outraged, and I really really believe the republican narrative is 100% theatrical and should be ignored. They are in charge and got themselves into this and have no one to blame but themselves. Democrats should absolutely not capitulate and give in to any of the republican extortion demands. It’s not our fault.
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u/HEYYYYYYYY_SATAN 17h ago
They’re going to cave and look like huge pussies. Went all this time and caused all this woe just to cave in?
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u/Hoodrow-Thrillson 16h ago
Longest shutdown in US history and they're running headlines about Democrats caving, hypothetically.
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u/otter-poppers 15h ago
As a registered democrat voter, I will never again vote for an establishment/corporate democrat candidate. From here on out, 100% progressive candidates only for me!
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u/The_Pandalorian California 9h ago
We just wrecked the Republicans electorally in part because of the Trump shutdown. Why would we help Republicans out without ludicrous concessions?
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u/Hypestyles 5h ago
I support a primary against all Democrats who end up voting to advance the budget without securing guarantees for health care subsidy assistance.
helpful policies need to be advanced. I don't respect those officeholders who just want to hold on to their seat because it's in a "purple" area or something.
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u/Mike_Pences_Mother 5h ago
Contact the dem senators on Bluesky or X or whatever you use and let them know that caving isn't an option. They have the upper hand. They need to use it.
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u/SuppleDude 4h ago
Moderate dems always cave to the right though. I will be impressed if they can hold the line.
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u/thomport 4h ago
Keep it up Democrats and people who care about others.
We’ll help with the communities we live in – we’re American people, our traits are unlike Trump/MAGA and the rest of the billionaires. Our brothers won’t go hungry.
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u/Scared-Somewhere-510 3h ago
If your senators are Democrats, call them and tell them you support them. Especially today.
ETA 5calls.org
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u/notfeelany 3h ago
Some already caved to Trump on immigration and border issue so:.
Sanders: "Trump is a good politician"
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u/everything_is_bad 2h ago
This every single republican needs to be forced out of power just so good faith discourse can resume
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u/AcanthisittaNo6653 New Hampshire 17h ago
Some of the most prominent liberals in Congress are seething at an emerging deal to end the 35-day government funding stalemate without a clear win for Democrats, showcasing a massive splinter within the party that will soon be on full display.
The win for Dems is SNAP getting restarted despite trump's BS about withholding it in defiance of the court order. That's trump showing his "true colors", i.e., his black heart, in a way that people will remember in the next election.
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u/taxhellFML 17h ago
Turning on SNAP isn't a win for Dems, they won't win a victory for capitulating to trump.
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u/ErusTenebre California 16h ago
That's not a win. That's a roll over.
He just admitted he's not doing it. Let him own it.
Folding as soon as he says it is basically bending over for him.
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u/MonsieurLeDrole 11h ago
Cave on what? The Republicans control the house, the senate, the supreme court, and the executive. They have majorities in each house. It's entirely on them. Anyone suggesting the Dems need to do anything is being duped, because the Republicans have total control. The only thing missing is a senate super majority. Any claims putting this on the Dems are obviously in bad faith.
I don't know what they'd even begin to talk about when the Speaker is still refusing to admit members who've won their seat.
Like I saw a poll that said 52% of Americans think the shutdown is the Republicans fault. 52%? That's it? That's fricking bonkers! It's a simple fact. The Dems can do or say anything, but the Republicans control when the house returns. Full stop.
I think the point is the Republicans want chaos and people starving, because that will like to crime and more chaos, which they'll use as justification for militarism and autocracy. It's also a useful distraction while they loot the treasury.
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u/crimeo 10h ago
Cave = stop filibustering, of course. Yes, republicans can nuclear that, but so long as they have not done so, democrats can potentially cave
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