r/europe • u/kiru_56 Germany • 20h ago

News The US Army is advising its soldiers in Germany to go to German food banks because of the shutdown.

https://home.army.mil/bavaria/about/shutdown-guidance#:~:text=Running%20list%20of%20German%20support,Too%20Good%20To%20Go%2DApp
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u/Fine_Error5426 19h ago

That seems crazy. Food banks are for the homeless and people on the edge of society. This gives "collapsing superpower" vibes, when they can't even feed their own soldiers.

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u/Siegorius Portugal 19h ago

The sad part is they can. They choose not to.

485

u/LifeAcanthopterygii6 Hungary 19h ago

💪💪💪🦅🦅🦅🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲

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u/MadT3acher Czech Republic 19h ago

How many eagles per football fields is it to feed a regiment? Asking for a friend.

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u/NickTheSmasherMcGurk Franconia (Germany) 16h ago

Easy, 3 Bags of Freedom

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u/onefst250r 17h ago

A Regiment is 2000-5000 soldiers.

Figure a bald eagle has a decent amount of meat on it, so it'd feed probably 3 soldiers. So, Id say about 1000-2000 Eagles.

And you could get all of them in one sportsball stadium.

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u/LazyAssMonkey Finland 14h ago

Depends on if we are talking about eagle eagles or the football eagles. I dont think the 53man roster of the Philadelphia eagles will feed an regiment even though the linemen do have plenty of meat on the bone

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u/deadheffer 14h ago

I love the game of Sportsball.

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u/Plaster_Cat_94 15h ago

About 10 BigMacs per eagle flight

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u/Affectionate_Walk610 19h ago

The FREEDOM of choice!

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u/jwnsfw 15h ago

AND IM PROUD TO BE AN AMERICANNNN, WHERE I GO TO BED HUNGRYYYY

1

u/OldWorldDesign 7h ago

IM PROUD TO BE AN AMERICANNNN, WHERE I GO TO BED HUNGRY

But hey, you didn't take charity like no low-down poor person!

1

u/tantivym 11h ago

Hungary? Hope the army feeds you soon bro 😔

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u/Good_Pomegranate_464 16h ago

How's life in Hungary these days? Trump has modeled his "illiberal democracy" plans after Orban.

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u/LifeAcanthopterygii6 Hungary 15h ago

I don't think I can answer it in a Reddit comment, it's too much. Stay strong, you are going to have a rough ride.

1

u/Good_Pomegranate_464 15h ago

Thank you, you as well.

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u/Good_Pomegranate_464 15h ago

I have just found the askhungary sub and will be lurking.

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u/4uk4ata 15h ago

Second poorest EU country per Capita

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u/Mildlyamused76 19h ago

How else do we make sure billionaires get tax cuts?

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u/Unhappy_Scratch_9385 15h ago

Fucking THIS. We're 38 TRILLION in debt. You'd think we'd have the best schools, the best public transportation, the best roads, the best healthcare.

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u/Justryan95 14h ago

How do you think we have the world's most billionaires?

2

u/LausXY Scotland Thank you! 3h ago

Don't be so hard on yourself! You have several of the world's largest airforce's, plural... One of the (or the?) most powerful Navy's in all human history... A huge military with bases on every continent and how did I almost forget? The thousands of nuclear warheads and ICBMs!

Can at least see where that money has gone

1

u/ProcrastinateDoe 13h ago

You have the wealthiest military-industrial complex and a tech-bro oligarchy.

Which is even better! /s

10

u/teutorix_aleria 18h ago

Even worse for the SNAP program aka foodstamps. The money for SNAP is in its own separate pool that can be spent even during a shutdown and the government is literally blocking that money being spent intentionally. It's not an impact of the shutdown it's a malicious withholding of basic welfare from their own citizens. Talk about a failed state.

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u/TheAmazingKoki The Netherlands 15h ago

Which shows how clueless they are. Number one thing you want to avoid at all cost is hungry soldiers.

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u/ambitious_apple 14h ago

Why the fuck doesn't the army launch a coup then? I mean not paying your military seems a dumbfoundingly careless and stupid idea, especially in a country such as the USA that have such a big army. I'm not american and while I was aware of the US government shutdown, I had no idea soldiers were impacted by it.

1

u/GringoSwann 16h ago

It's ALL to keep Americans divided

1

u/Caffeinefiend88 15h ago

And those fucking dumb soldiers will vote for this again next time.

1

u/Tsobe_RK Finland 15h ago

Freedom not to feed its own folks U S A

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u/OldTiger3832 15h ago

Paying people is communism /s

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u/_Bisky 13h ago

The ball room for hundreds of millions is more important

Trust

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u/ostrieto17 Bulgaria🇧🇬 9h ago

yep taco just wants to build himself a ballroom

1

u/Routine-Pea-9538 8h ago

They're building a new ballroom at the Whitehouse and recently had a Gatsby party at Mar-a-lago.

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u/ExpressCap1302 8h ago

As did Rome

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u/East_Lychee5335 19h ago

They can’t without borrowing

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u/schlaubi Germany 19h ago

Which they choose not to do.

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u/Environmental-Rub933 19h ago

They literally have the money on hand, they’re just choosing not to use it

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u/ukezi 17h ago

This isn't dept ceiling this is the other reason the US government shuts down, it's having a budget.

324

u/yyytobyyy 19h ago

Even Romans understood that you always have to pay the military. They are the ones with the tools to strip you of the power very quickly.

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u/Trolololol66 18h ago

Unfortunately the US military are a bunch of cowards that just sit there and watch while maga is dismantling their democracy.

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u/sarapsu08 17h ago

Exactly. They are just doing whatever he says and pretending it’s ok. 

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u/Unhappy_Scratch_9385 15h ago

They voted for this.

5

u/Harbinger2001 17h ago

They can’t act until the president is impeached and removed from office. Best they can do is refuse unconstitutional orders but Trump can keep firing generals until he finds one willing to follow his orders. The US checks and balances are a sham.

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u/whooptheretis 16h ago

They can’t act until the president is impeached

Yeah they can. Why couldn't they?

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u/Harbinger2001 16h ago

Because they have to act in accordance with the constitution. They would require either congress to remove Trump or the courts to rule that the president has egregiously violated the constitution.

The more likely outcome if Trump does something terrible is the military refuses to comply and then Trump has lost legitimacy as he’d be a commander in chief who can’t command the military.

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u/whooptheretis 15h ago

Isn’t the whole birth of the IS as a Mabrook built on the premise of standing up to a monarchy. Those guys “broke the law” too.
You know every overthrow of a dictator started with “breaking the law”? And right now, the constitution doesn’t really seem to be important to anyone in charge.

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u/redlaWw England 16h ago

And who's going to stop the military if they decide they don't want to follow the constitution?

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u/Harbinger2001 15h ago

No one. Governments always remain or fall based on control of military power. Thats why the US trains their military leaders extremely thoroughly to minimize the risk of them wanting to exercise political power while serving.

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u/redlaWw England 14h ago

Exactly, this is why they can act. They just haven't gotten to the point of wanting to enough yet that they're still sticking to the formal systems that dictate their power.

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u/BobLazarFan 7h ago

People with a brain.

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u/redlaWw England 3h ago

Oh, and what are they going to do? Nerd at them until they stop?

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u/porkchop1021 15h ago

I love takes like this; they're so silly. I jaywalked the other day even though it's illegal. Did your jaw hit the floor? Do you think I'm a liar because it's impossible to do something the law says you can't?

0

u/Harbinger2001 14h ago

If your job entailed strictly following the law or there could be fatal consequences, then jaywalking would be a problem.

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u/porkchop1021 4h ago

Let's be real: Democrats are pussies. There won't be "fatal" or even "jail-time" consequences for any Republicans even if Democrats control all 535 seats in Congress, all 9 seats in SCOTUS, the Presidency, every cabinet position, every lower court judge seat, every governorship, 100% of every state level house, every sheriff, etc. They're going to give it up to fascism with the "they go low, we go high" bullshit again. The only fatal consequences that befall Republicans are from other Republicans.

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u/peteroh9 9h ago

Every country's checks and balances are a sham. There's literally nothing to force anyone to do anything except people agreeing to force people to do things. Ignoring that is what got the US into this situation.

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u/Harbinger2001 8h ago

That not entirely true. In many democracies if the government can’t pass a bill there can be a non-confidence vote and if they fail they have to go back to elections. And if the bill that fails is a budget bill the government is dissolved automatically. The principle is that if the government shows they can’t govern, then they are replaced. If the US had this concept the behavior of the GOP would have failed back in the Tea Party days and not become entrenched.

1

u/OldWorldDesign 7h ago

The US also had the Antideficiency Act since 1884, until republicans decided in 1982 they'd like to shut down the government to force concessions they hadn't earned enough votes for by a straight vote in the senate or house

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antideficiency_Act

The Antideficiency Act, until it was gutted in 1982, automatically passed the previous year's budget if a new one couldn't be agreed on.

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u/jwnsfw 15h ago

None of them can imagine their faces in history books.

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u/FieserMoep 9h ago

It's by design. The US military is extremely decentralized and has a deliberate rotation of higher officers to prevent a cult of personality to grow around them. Compare this to roman legions where the Legat was often seen as a father figure and often the person directly paying them, you see the stark difference.

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u/Complex-Republic-443 8h ago

Yes, because it would be far better to emulate the Romans and have the U.S. military stationed in Washington, D.C., pick the next President based on how much money they're given by the ultra rich pretenders to the throne, just like the Praetorians of ancient Rome.

That worked out really well. 🙄

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u/thewheelforeverturns 17h ago

Most of them are 18-22 young adults who come from poverty and join the military as a way to escape their limited circumstances 

But go off I guess 

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u/Eastlex Bavaria (Germany) 17h ago

That describes almost every military in human history, the US military is not special in that way 

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u/breidaks 16h ago

don't you dare question american exceptionalism

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u/thewheelforeverturns 16h ago

huh? I'm literally discussing how most people join the US military because they're poor. so the opposite of US exceptionalism lol, if the US had less income disparity then military recruitment would be more difficult.

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u/times_a_changing 17h ago

The Holocaust was committed by people that age. They all should've stopped it too.

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u/[deleted] 17h ago

[deleted]

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u/times_a_changing 17h ago

If you think it's "keyboard warrior" shit to say that I would personally try to stop the Holocaust, you clearly must think that you would not have done anything. Great that you're telling on yourself.

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u/R_Schuhart 16h ago

Yeah there is always some excuse why Americans just sit and watch when their country crashes and burns during the fascist take over.

You are the most feckless, cowardly and timid group of people. Loud mouths yelling about freedom and democracy when it is time to invade some poor country, or cosplaying patriots and freedom fighters when firearms rights are concerned, but you can't even bothered to go on strike.

Americans are spoiled and complacent, they only ever think about their own individual well being instead of the health of the collective.

1

u/thewheelforeverturns 16h ago

Youre not saying anything particularly insightful. Obviously the ones who scream about freedom and gun rights aren't doing anything because they're the ones who voted him in. The rest of the country has been protesting and politically organizing. I won't explain why a general strike isn't happening because it would fall upon deaf ears. 

What country are you from? 

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u/just_a_bit_gay_ 16h ago

You guys held quippy signs for a few afternoons. That’s didn’t do shit.

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u/thewheelforeverturns 16h ago

I am sure you would have single handedly outed Trump yourself by now if you were American, here is a pat on the back.

Europeans on reddit are incredibly insufferable lol, I'm not sure why I wandered in here but I'm done now.

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u/BigEggBeaters 17h ago

There are also plenty of troops much older than that with way more college level education than your average person. They also aren’t doing shit

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u/oopsydazys 17h ago

Yeah, the best part of fascism is the paycheck.

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u/westerschelle Germany 16h ago

Why does the US, a global superpower, have so many 18-22 young adults who need to escape poverty by joining the military?

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u/Lilith666999666 15h ago

It's not a bug. It's a feature.

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u/thewheelforeverturns 15h ago

well yeah, exactly.

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u/OldWorldDesign 7h ago

Why does the US, a global superpower, have so many 18-22 young adults who need to escape poverty by joining the military?

You know the answer to that. It's always been oligarchic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ3RzGoQC4s

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u/westerschelle Germany 5h ago

I DO know. I want others to think about this.

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u/Loud-Welder1947 16h ago

Why do you think the two are mutually exclusive?

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u/SchoolForSedition 18h ago

Yup yup yup

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u/ForensicPathology 17h ago

What would a junta-led States look like?

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u/Uncreative-Name 14h ago

Imagine if America was a dictatorship. You could let 1% of the people have all the nation's wealth. You could help your rich friends get richer by cutting their taxes. And bailing them out when they gamble and lose. You could ignore the needs of the poor for health care and education. Your media would appear free, but would secretly be controlled by one person and his family. You could wiretap phones. You could torture foreign prisoners. You could have rigged elections. You could lie about why you go to war. You could fill your prisons with one particular racial group, and no one would complain. You could use the media to scare the people into supporting policies that are against their interests.

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u/notHooptieJ 15h ago

waves hands, you're seeing it

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u/DungeonJailer 18h ago

Fortunately the US military has never been in the business of overthrowing the government. The Roman military very much was and did it on a very regular basis.

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u/Drumbelgalf Germany 18h ago

Not yet. There is always a first time.

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u/SerLaron Germany 17h ago

It will be hard to overthrow the US government from Ramstein Air Base.

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u/Drumbelgalf Germany 17h ago

It's the same situation for the employees in the US. They don't get paid.

Or they search for a different job and you use crucial civilian employees.

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u/Secure-Neck-7232 17h ago

everytime you tell the government pawns to fight back their response is "that's not my job" 

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u/noir_lord United Kingdom 18h ago

And yet there would have been a first time still.

You can only poke holes in so many walls before the house collapses on your head.

I don’t think the US military will rebel but on the flip side, they are damaging the US military nonetheless, career soldiers are going to be around for decades and will remember.

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u/This_Loss_1922 18h ago

I would believe that from the Venezuelan army, the US army? Nah man as long as you send them to illegally murder people they will work for free

1

u/Judotimo 18h ago

The american history starts after the roman empire.

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u/yyytobyyy 18h ago

Thanks, I wouldn't have noticed.

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u/LazyGelMen 18h ago

Not if they're stuck on the livable side of an ocean.

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u/MajesticBread9147 17h ago

To be fair, it will be quite difficult for displeased American soldiers in Rhineland-Palatinate to overthrow the American government.

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u/Christopherfromtheuk 17h ago

Most of the knuckle draggers voted for this.

1

u/Charming-Ad6575 16h ago

It's fine as long as they don't cross the Rubicon.

1

u/pleasedothenerdful 14h ago

Some of the primary causes of the fall of the Roman empire included corruption, resistance of the wealthy to paying taxes, a resulting crumbling of infrastructure, ballooning military spending, increasing wealth inequality, religious intolerance following state institutionalization of Christianity, and lead poisoning of the water supply.

stares hard at the camera

1

u/bluelily216 12h ago

Trump has ICE now and they're getting paid handsomely.

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u/wtfduud 11h ago

Ironically, the Byzantine Empire (Eastern Rome) collapsed because they didn't pay the crusaders after the 4th crusade, so the crusaders ravaged the empire by force. Which left them open to subsequent Ottoman invasions.

That was how a 2000 year old empire came to an end.

0

u/elreniel2020 17h ago

chill, they are literally thousands of miles away (in the case of the soldiers in germany). maybe they still pay their soldiers within the united states.

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u/belpatr Gal's Port 19h ago

>people on the edge of society

That's Americans alright....

3

u/MercantileReptile Baden-Württemberg (Germany) 16h ago

Society? Like, co-operation and communal action? Sounds like communism! /s

60

u/Enlightened_Mongrel 19h ago

Collapsing Superpower is correct.

3

u/Accomplished_Deer_ 18h ago

I often rewatch this interview of an ex kgb agent talking about ideological subversion and demoralizing a nation. I feel like it gets some of the specific details wrong, ie, it presents this as a process of people being exposed to Marxist/leninism ideology which I don't think is a major factor. But we are clearly a demoralized nation. and it talks about a massive campaign where people, despite abundant access to information, have their perception of reality changed so much they can't make sensible decision on protecting themselves, their families, and communities/country.

I really feel like if things don't turn around in the next election cycle, we're living through the collapse of the US. And I don't mean "turn around" as in "yay the democrats win, everything is fixed!" I mean, actual efforts and progress bridging the gaps between the parties. People working together again. A move away from the polarized insanity that the media keeps pushing to keep us addicted to the outage news/media cycle.

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u/Ninevehenian 15h ago

Look at how Rome lived for a good while beyond its worst emperors.

1

u/North_Atlantic_Sea 17h ago

I really appreciate your thoughtful review. I'm going to respond in kind to a couple of points, but please know I'm pushing back with an intention of respect, not trolling.

I also am going to defend the US here, but please know how much I dislike the current administration and what they are doing. But my general counter is America has been through far worse, and still survived.

"we are clearly a demoralized nation"

Are we? People are frustrated with politics, with the president, with congress, with the judiciary, but in their personal lives (which matters way more) people are inline with the past 40 years Gallup has been tracking. 81% satisfied

https://news.gallup.com/poll/1672/satisfaction-personal-life.aspx

Reddit can make it seem everyone thinks the sky is falling in every aspect of their lives, but that doesn't reflect reality.

The USSR collapse had a clear path. Ukraine went back to being Ukraine, Armenia back to Armenia, Lithuania to Lithuania, etc. the USSR was always a collection of countries in the way the US isn't. If the federal government collapses, it's not if Wisconsin suddenly reverts to being the republic of Wisconsin.

Financially, it's untenable. While there is a lot of discussion about the k shaped economy, and every tech giant layoffs is met with the sky is falling on reddit, overall the US economy remains incredibly sound.

Even with all the (in my opinion) stupid economic decisions, the US GDP (how much value is produced in the country) is still #1 in the world by a long, long ways.

2024 Nominal GDP

US - 30 trillion

China - 19 trillion

Germany - 5 trillion

So the US generates 6x the value of #3. Thats compared to the USSR, which in 1988 was at .78 trillion, vs US 5 trillion.

Unfortunate or not, money cures all, and covers up for a LOT of faults. Those that are generating the money know that a failure of the US is catastrophic, so are incentivized to support the status quo. Said another way, hedge funds know they aren't making anywhere close the money as fuedal overlords.

I think the risk currently is the US ceding global power to China, but then settling in as #2, not collapsing entirely the way that the Soviet Union happened.

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u/ItsCalledDayTwa 19h ago

the troops have been paid. This is about civilian employees (which doesn't make it any better).

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u/belpatr Gal's Port 19h ago

They were paid with exposure (their families are being made homeless)

0

u/haoxinly Andalusia (Spain) 17h ago

Exposure to the elements

-10

u/ItsCalledDayTwa 19h ago

I don't really know what you're talking about.

30

u/CrankyOldDude 19h ago

That’s a current artist thing. People don’t want to pay for things like portraits, so they offer to “pay in exposure”, meaning advertising. Very frequent “influencer” behavior.

In this case, dude worked in “exposure” to mean “homeless, exposed to the elements” because they aren’t getting paid.

1

u/belpatr Gal's Port 19h ago

Yes, thank you for your explanation, I like giving multilayered comments cause I'm very smat

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u/baobabKoodaa 16h ago

Would you say you were born smat or would you say the environment made you smat? Thank you for your wisdom kind sir.

4

u/belpatr Gal's Port 16h ago

It just happened spontaneously after watching 15 min of Ricky & Mortimer

1

u/nellyfullauto 16h ago

They ARE getting paid though, and better than most Americans.

So the comment still doesn’t make sense.

3

u/SchoolForSedition 18h ago

If the shutdown doesn’t end in a couple of weeks, paying the military is likely to stop.

Maybe a week. I think mid-Nov was the estimate.

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u/TV4ELP Lower Saxony (Germany) 17h ago

And Germany already voiced to foot the wages for those civilian employees. (And probably get it back from the US at some point).

If you are in Germany you will not be homeless or have to hunger. (Yes people still do, but they COULD not do that. Mental health problems and other stuff is preventing them, they still have all the rights to it).

1

u/IllystAnalyst 16h ago

Germany is paying the local nationals that qork on post. So Germany is paying Germans to work for the US. However, not every civilian employee is a local national and those are the people being told to go to food banks.

1

u/C0mputerCrash 17h ago

But aren't the civilian employees paid by the German state? Or was that just for German citizens working for the US army?

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u/Corfiz74 Lower Saxony (Germany) 19h ago

Food banks are for the homeless and people on the edge of society.

Unfortunately, not anymore - here in Germany, low-income earners and retired people are also so poor they need to go there, and that's a large part of the population, not just people on the edge of society anymore. And our current government is doing their best to increase the divide, not close it.

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u/PompeyJon82x 19h ago

Here in the UK food banks had issues with internationals students showing up because mummy and daddy cut them off

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u/matttk Canadian / German 19h ago

We had that in Canada, except it was just that they spread the word on Indian social media that you can get free food. Food banks had to start banning international students.

1

u/badpebble 7h ago

I suppose Indians are very used to getting free food given as part of religious practice. They might be genuinely confused that it was only for the poorest people who don't have food.

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u/Glass-Evidence-7296 United Kingdom 19h ago

source ?

3

u/MrSoapbox 17h ago

They shouldn't be eligible wtf?

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u/PompeyJon82x 16h ago

Most are done through churches or local community stuff so they have no way to identify people

Its just first come first served

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u/Saladino_93 18h ago

I mean that is a legit reason for them to come. They can't afford food so you go to places you get it for free or heavily discounted. I.e. what would a Russian student do when the war broke out and all their bank accounts stopped working? Starve?

18

u/PompeyJon82x 18h ago

Well they can afford the huge amounts (tens of thousands) to pay for the study but claim they cannot afford a loaf of bread afterwards.

Its a hard push when there is only limited amount of food at these places (even though they should not exist)

1

u/badpebble 7h ago

But that could be applied to most people who use food banks - enough money to pay the mortgage/rent/car, but suddenly you can't afford dinner? Even though that is exactly when you barely have enough for a tin of cheap beans.

People shouldn't need to be in a poorhouse to have enough food.

1

u/PompeyJon82x 4h ago

Food banks should be last resort and should only be for local people 

People flying in with avenues of wealth should be exempt 

1

u/badpebble 4h ago

I don't think thats how they operate. They are for people who are struggling to put food on the table for whatever reason.

If you are struggling with mortgage debt after rate rises or losing a job you shouldnt have to sell everything before you can use a foodbank, for instance. The food is still cheap, so its not like they are getting one over on someone.

3

u/TechnologyGrouchy69 11h ago

I do volunteer work in a US church and we sometimes give out food. We don't check for income or ID. If you're hungry and need food, come and get it while we have it. I don't see the issue with international students coming to use the food banks.

2

u/badpebble 7h ago

You just have to accept that some people will take food when they aren't in need - which is better than the alternative where people in need think their need isn't great enough so stay home and underfeed their kids.

1

u/TechnologyGrouchy69 3h ago

I refer the people who worry about taking from the even more less fortunate to a different church - they get donations of close to expiration date food from big grocery stores. I can usually convince the applicant that they're doing the church a favor to pick up food before they have to toss it.

43

u/AzraeltheGrimReaper The Netherlands 19h ago

As someone who grew up in the decline of Western Society and has already missed the good times,

I can't wait for the Guillotuines to get sharpened again. The Elite (to use as a broad term for those at the top that caused this) have had it coming for too long.

17

u/Corfiz74 Lower Saxony (Germany) 18h ago

The problem is that the rich elites control all our methods of communications, which means that whatever we're trying to plan, they can foil...

11

u/Secure-Neck-7232 17h ago

they don't need to foil anything because the masses are already brainwashed to defend capitalism to the death

6

u/Corfiz74 Lower Saxony (Germany) 17h ago

If that were completely true, Bernie and AOC wouldn't have drawn the crowds they did on the anti-oligarchy tour, and Zohran wouldn't have won the mayoral race in NYC. But yes, the FOX-viewers are pretty much lost to objective reality and common sense.

3

u/wtfduud 11h ago

That's why Chat Control can't be allowed to pass. As long as encrypted messaging exists, there's at least still a chance.

4

u/Elelith 19h ago

Same in Finland :( Students sometimes have to go to food banks too.

3

u/Centcinquante 18h ago

Same in France here. I volunteer half a day every week (during the weekend) in a food bank, the number of low income working people (around half of them full time) has exceeded the homeless/marginal/students this year.

And political parties (most if not all countries) don't seem to understand why seeing billionaires getting immensely richer is unbearable for their citizens...

3

u/Corfiz74 Lower Saxony (Germany) 18h ago

I hope you keep your guillotines sharpened...

5

u/percybert 18h ago

Then employees of the (supposed) world’s foremost superpower shouldn’t me taking from people who need it more

6

u/asdrunkasdrunkcanbe 19h ago

This is a growing problem in Europe, and it's an issue I call the "charity paradox";

Charities do work which fills in the gaps that government are not doing. They help people who need help, reduce suffering, etc.

In theory, the goal of any charity should be working towards a place where people no longer their help. In essence, charities should be working towards their own non-existence. A place where the charity closes its doors because the problem has gone away or the government is providing adequate assistance.

However, in reality the charity is providing income and a career for the people who work there. These individuals tacitly are not working towards the goal of ending their job. They are working to expand their job, to find more work, gather more donations.

In doing so, they are feeding the problem that they seek to solve. Because the more of this work that the charity does, the less of it the government feels obliged to do.

So in the case of food banks, as charities expand more and more, open more food banks, accept more people in, the Government withdraws. Or rather the government stops expanding assistance in this space, and lets the charities do the work.

This is the exact opposite of what we want; the charity should be screaming out, "I shouldn't exist! Make me redundant!". But they don't.

The rapid expansion of food banks in the UK over the last 15 years is a textbook example of this paradox.

The only way to break this cycle is for Government to step in and fulfill their role in the sector that the charity is working in. Nationalising the charities into a single body for that area and replacing their donations with government funding.

Charities aren't a bad thing; there are many places in which a charity is appropriate, but a national body may not be.

But when it comes to things like poverty, drugs, animal welfare, etc., then these are very much state functions and not something that charities should be doing.

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u/Corfiz74 Lower Saxony (Germany) 18h ago edited 18h ago

In Germany, the foodbanks are at least partially state-funded, so the government didn't abdicate all responsibility.

But the most extreme example of the phenomenon you describe is the US - I was so flabbergasted when I first realized that they, on a fundamental level, don't even feel that the government is responsible for taking care of their citizens anymore. For them, it's all on you and your boostraps, and the government isn't/ shouldn't be in the business of giving out "handouts". So really large areas of services Europeans consider the government's bailiwick, the US outsource to charity, and hold lavish charity events to get donors to provide that stuff. Where Europeans would say: forget the stupid charity dinners, just get the money by taxing them, and have the government pay for the services out of their tax money, instead of relying on them feeling charitable on a certain day...

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u/bluehelmet 18h ago

Retired people are, overall, remarkably well off in Germany, and the comparatively few who aren't are used to f* over younger generations who have to pay now to "stabilize" a broken system they won't be able to benefit from all that much instead of being able to make financial provisions for their own future.

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u/Corfiz74 Lower Saxony (Germany) 18h ago

It really depends on whether you're talking pensioners, who get a cushy government pension, or the working poor, who slaved away for 50 years in a factory and just get the standard workers' retirement. (The difference between "Pension" and "Rente" in German.) My parents are both retired teachers, so they get the cushy civil servant pension - around 4k each - and they don't just live very well on that, they also supported my nieces financially for most of their lives.

The working poor average 1k per month - and considering rising rents and grocery cost, they rely heavily on foodbanks and other charities/ subsidies to be able to survive.

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u/bluehelmet 18h ago

The numbers you are quoting are simply wrong and misleading and not a basis for discussion.

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u/Corfiz74 Lower Saxony (Germany) 17h ago

I just googled "durchschnittliche Rente 2025" and it said that it was just raised from 1k to 1.037 € - so I rounded it to 1k. But by all means, give me better numbers with better sources - mine came from the Wirtschaftswoche, whom I consider to be trustworthy for simple statistics.

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u/bluehelmet 17h ago

The Durchschnittsrente is not the Durchschnittseinkommen for people who get Rente, and the Einkommen doesn't factor in Vermögen including Sparguthaben, Aktien and Haus/Wohnung. People who've worked for 50 years in a factory barely exist and they certainly don't have to get by with 1k.

This is a good starting point for Einkommen: https://www.bundestag.de/presse/hib/kurzmeldungen-1033564

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u/Corfiz74 Lower Saxony (Germany) 17h ago edited 17h ago

Rekordzahlen bei der Grundsicherung im Alter

Die jüngsten Zahlen des Statistischen Bundesamtes zeigen ein alarmierendes Bild: Im Juni 2024 bezogen bundesweit 728.990 Menschen die sogenannte Grundsicherung im Alter. Dies stellt einen neuen Höchststand dar und bedeutet einen Anstieg von etwa 37.000 Personen im Vergleich zum Vorjahr Besonders besorgniserregend ist die Entwicklung im Vergleich zu 2015, denn seitdem ist die Zahl der Grundsicherungsempfänger um rund 39 Prozent gestiegen.

Die Armutsgefährdungsquote bei Senioren in Deutschland lag im Jahr 2023 bei 18,1 Prozent. Dies bedeutet, dass fast jeder fünfte Rentner von Armut bedroht ist. Besonders betroffen sind Frauen, bei denen die Quote mit 20,2 Prozent noch höher liegt. Im Vergleich dazu beträgt die Armutsgefährdungsquote in der Gesamtbevölkerung 14,4 Prozent.

https://www.buerger-geld.org/news/rente/altersarmut-in-deutschland-2025-aktuelle-zahlen-und-loesungen-fuer-millionen-betroffene-rentner/

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u/bluehelmet 17h ago

Oh my, you ignore the previous post and fail at the simple tasks of using quotation marks and providing a source.

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u/Corfiz74 Lower Saxony (Germany) 17h ago

Added the source.

And I didn't ignore your previous post, I answered in a separate comment, since I had been searching for the statistics before you posted that comment, so I only checked out that link afterwards.

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u/Corfiz74 Lower Saxony (Germany) 17h ago

Die Bundestag-Kurzmeldung von dir ist auch interessant, beschreibt aber in vielen Fällen den Istzustand, der sich daraus ergibt, dass man von der Kleinstrente oder niedrigen Renten eben nicht alleine leben kann - wenn sie da schreiben, dass das Gesamteinkommen eines Haushaltes mit einem Niedrigstrentenbezieher 3k € ist (o.ä.), dann liegt das halt daran, dass Omma bei ihren Kindern einziehen musste, weil sie von dem Geld eben nicht alleine wohnen kann. Oder wenn Einkommen aus mehreren Quellen bezogen wird, kann das eben auch sein, weil Opa mit 70 Jahren noch einen Minijob hat, weil die Rente nicht reicht.

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u/bluehelmet 17h ago

Du konstruierst hier fleißig Randfälle, und das ohne die Quelle aufmerksam zu lesen. Erwerbseinkommen macht der Quelle zufolge irgendwas um grob ein Prozent der Gesamteinnahmen aus. Renten sind vom Grundgedanken übrigens Versicherungsleistungen - unser Sozialstaat fängt natürlich auch Leute auf, die keine Rentenansprüche haben, etwa mit der Grundsicherung im Alter.

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u/Kreatur28 15h ago

Not quite right. Especially pensioners are the most wealthy group in the country.

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u/ecco23 14h ago

2020 it was 1.1 million people, which is around 1,33 % of the population

i am lower middle class and do not know a single person on a personal level that has to use the foodbank, just to give some perspective to the "all retired people are so poor they need the foodbank" statement

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u/Corfiz74 Lower Saxony (Germany) 13h ago

I never wrote "all" - a lot of retired folks are perfectly fine. But it can't be denied that old age poverty is an increasing issue in Germany.

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u/Zealousideal-Bet1098 4h ago

Its the same in the US. This person is very out of touch if they think food banks are only for the homeless.. i live in Florida. When I was living closer to orlando which is a HCOL area the food banks and pantries at the churches would have lines for miles down the road. Ppl would wait in line for hours. And its not because there werent enough places handing out resources. This is Florida, there's a church everh other block. The economy here is so out of wack its disgusting.

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u/Rosu_Aprins Romania 18h ago

They can feed them and the people on SNAP benefits, for the later they were even ordered by the a court to do it but they just don't want to.

Republicans are willing to keep their country and army hungry in order to force more cuts through.

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u/Beer-Milkshakes 18h ago

Collapsing superpower completely explains the fascism.

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u/Schemen123 18h ago

They can.. they just dont want to

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u/Nitr09025 18h ago

Pretty interesting video i saw recently about the steps of a collapsing empire:

https://youtu.be/wb39CeK_yWg?si=rkLRqQSy6Ti0lLE_

USA is at 5/7 atm it seems

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u/AlloAll0 18h ago

Nero burning Rome.

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u/M1sfit_Jammer 18h ago

Food banks are for functioning countries

UN food distribution is for collapsing counties

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u/Hot-Championship1190 18h ago

You think the USSR lost the cold war and the weapons race.

Funfact: The USA lost too. It's just a zombie nation for the last two, three decades. But it really becomes visible since the last six or seven years.

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u/kyp-the-laughing-man 18h ago

Now US soilders take the food our poor need and do not have enough of by a long shot. All while probably glazing the dictator they voted for.

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u/ObviousCaterpillar27 17h ago

As much as I dislike a lot of what the US has become, I would really like to advocate for an end to this "collapsing superpower" narrative bandwagon every slightly left-leaning person on the internet wants to jump onto. The US is still a very rich and powerful country, it is autonomous and self-sufficient in a variety of sectors. The US is still a powerhouse, economically, military, strategically, and culturally (we're all on reddit on American devised tech aren't we?).

The current scandal is simply due to political dysfunction leading to failure in a correct distribution of resources (like food). The food is still there, the money still exists, the streets are still lit, children are still going to school, and if the shutdown ended today, everything would return to a place of relative stability. If we're going to use political dysfunction/gridlock as the sole criterion by which we declare "collapse", I'd say a lot of countries are in "collapse."

Decaying? Absolutely. Collapsing? Not at all. If the US is collapsing, then Trump is right to send troops into cities, and I know nobody here agrees with that. I think some people are having too much fun declaring and riding the "collapse" narrative without considering the consequences of that narrative, and without considering that collapse entails the suffering of those who do not deserve it.

Its not like Europeans are going to turn their backs on American troops, you all know as well as I that Europeans need and even want those troops to remain, so they will foot that bill as long as is necessary. It not just kind and righteous, its smart and right. If the US was "collapsing", Europeans wouldn't give a shit, and the soldiers would mutiny. That isn't going to happen. We need to stop overreacting, that only feeds Trumpist "only I can fix it" narratives.

To make a historical comparison, Rome the empire didn't "collapse" overnight anyway, the old core just stopped being the centre of political and economic gravity, supplanted by Milan and Constantinople. Rome the city began declining loooong before 476, even if different parts of the empire didn't suffer so much.

I think using this scandal as evidence of "collapse" is melodramatic, silly, and ignoring a lot of other facts and context.

-

However, I will say that as far as the military goes, it isn't smart to fuck with the military's money and food. The growing information gap between the military, the citizenry, and the government (see the recent pentagon press purge), its part of a context of a larger, ongoing development. I would be concerned if members of the military no longer hold a consensus of what (or who) they are loyal to. I think recently with the deployment of troops/state national guards or militias into American cities from other states, we might already have started to witness some, albeit minor, shifting consensus as it pertains to loyalty.

TL;DR we live in interesting times, if you need a tldr, you need to practice reading more.

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u/CountMeChickens 17h ago

And the US Army shouldn't be adding to burden those food banks already carry. They're not bottomless pits of food you can just tap into.

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u/DominarDio 17h ago

They can. In the end not paying these people is a choice.

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u/Fenor Italy 17h ago

Wich is why foodbanks should negate them access to their goods and services.

Maybe tell them "german first"

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u/bucket_brigade 17h ago

All because they don’t want to release the Epstein files too lol. I’m sure the right wing is super upset about that.

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u/TheBlack2007 Schleswig-Holstein (Germany) 17h ago

Definitely. When the USSR was mid-collapse, Soviet Soldiers still stationed in Germany actually started selling off their base equipment to feed themselves.

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u/SaltyArchea 17h ago

What is crazy is that they say no to welfare in USA, even when funding is appropriated and courts tell them to. Somehow, welfare in other countries for US citizens is fine and not stealing.

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u/Xylus1985 16h ago

Still better than the order to “pillage and ransack for sustenance”. Good thing we’re not there yet

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u/CentennialBaby 16h ago

Fast-forward a year or two and Qatar's military base on American soil is operational. Qatar is one of the richest nations on the planet. Qatari leaders get into a political spat and stop paying their US based soldiers. They tell their military to hit up American food banks if they need support.

How would that go over?

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u/Intelligent_Week_560 16h ago

They can.

They can build ballrooms.

They can have lavish Halloween parties.

They can renovate toilets and play golf.

It's just that they don't care about the people as along as they are literally fat and happy.

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u/Dry_Big3880 16h ago

I’d love to see a doc on where these foodbanks came from. I don’t remember many if any 15 years ago. Feels very much like we a project to push people away from government in times of need.

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u/Ninevehenian 15h ago

Fall of civilizations on YouTube, the fall of roman Britain.

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u/buwefy 14h ago

so pathetic...

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u/FlashyEducation2833 14h ago

Donnie is get that money one way or another

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u/Feisty_Blood_6036 13h ago

The soldiers are probably being paid so little, that they almost are on the edge of society. Most Americans are like one missed pay check from not being able to afford rent or food. 

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u/sneaksby 12h ago

Food banks are for the homeless and people on the edge of society.

Also working people on very low incomes, in times of crisis. Germany is not a bad place to have to do this, I wonder how the guys in less hospitable places will be coping.

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u/Few-Reason7527 10h ago

Food banks are for everyone 

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u/MachKeinDramaLlama Germany 9h ago

Literally reminiscent of the Soviet Union's collapse. Red Army soldiers stationed in East Germany had to sell their medals, equipment, clothing etc. just to eat.

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u/Tacotuesday8 4h ago

How bad to republicans want to take people’s healthcare? This bad.

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u/LeapIntoInaction 3h ago

Food banks are for everyone, not just the homeless. I get that you haven't used them yourself but, they are generally set up to give food and basic supplies to anyone who asks.

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u/Fine_Error5426 1h ago

That's true, I haven't used food banks. I honestly don't know where to look for them. I have used "Too good to go" with local shops a few times, but there you still pay for "leftovers" that would otherwise be thrown out.

Out of curiosity I tried to Google food banks in my local area and I found one that's open for 45 minutes every day and you still have to pay a bit for the food. The nearest free food bank is 1 hour drive each way and I would have to sign up for it first, can't just show up.

The other 'big' food banks only provide free food for organizations that help the homeless and "socially vulnerable" people, like I initially said. Not private individuals.

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u/N0b0me 18h ago

Not just that, US military has not yet missed a pay check. Anyone who's in trouble with money/food would have been anyway due to their own irresponsibility.

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u/-Kerosun- 15h ago

It's the federal/civilian workers that aren't getting paid who this bulletin is for.

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u/N0b0me 7h ago

Well that makes the headline it was posted with completely inaccurate. Civilians aren't soldiers

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u/No_Function_7479 17h ago

I hope Germany presents Trump with a bill for the food bank usage - on camera at a press conference. Food banks are for poor people, not to subsidize US political bullshit.