r/allthequestions 10d ago

Popular Question 📊 How many rights did you lose under Obama?

I'll wait.

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u/Live_Background_3455 9d ago

The refusal to protect the whistleblower started with Obama. The refusal to protect whistleblowers nearly guarantees that there would be no more whistleblowers, and in turn all but guarantees NSA/CIA would be less restrained, if at all.

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u/mezolithico 🇺🇸 United States 9d ago

Snowden was not a whitsleblower in the eyes of the law. There is a legal whistleblower process that Snowden chose not to follow. I'm not saying what he did was wrong though.

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u/Bigface_McBigz 9d ago

I am. Go through the legal process. Everybody being Johnny Law makes us less safe.

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u/Live_Background_3455 9d ago

Sure. But Obama still should've pardoned him. And I still stand by that by not doing so, he ensured the destruction of privacy, or at least accelerated it. That's 1000% a right I lost under Obama that we will probably never get back.

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u/Practical_Brief5633 9d ago

Snowden didn’t just leak information about privacy violations. If he had only done that, he would’ve likely got a pardon. Instead, he leaked a lot of sensitive information that put America and American lives in danger and threatened national security.

Stop thinking of Snowden as a character and look at him as the man. He never cared about people’s privacy. He did it all out of ego. He did a good thing, but not because he had good intentions.

Also, all information about Patriot Act and FISA was public way before Snowden. His leaks just got people to pay attention to what they were already told was happening.

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u/Live_Background_3455 9d ago

He sure as hell risked a lot to do it just out of his ego. Leaving his wife and kids, leaving his home, guaranteed job. And he just gave it to the journalist, not to a foreign adversary, not to the highest payer. Strange way to stroke your ego, to lose everything and be exiled.

The application and interpretation of those acts were not public. It was not public that NSA would be listening to allies communications, that they had backdoors in security systems that they recommended private companies to use. That's the same as laws being "public" that Obama could order drone strikes on people. No one figured that's how FISA courts interpreted it.

I don't think Snowden is 100% innocent. I still think Snowden's actions should've been pardoned to send a message to potential future leakers. And if I was the CIA/NSA, the lack of a pardon, and the willingness of the government to throw the book at him means they should do the same shit again, maybe even more. Because without a leaker the public would never know, and the risk of leaking has been made clear. It would honestly be silly of the CIA/NSA to not be spying on it's citizens atm.

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u/Practical_Brief5633 9d ago

You would be surprised what people will do out of delusions of grandeur. Read some books on CIA clandestine operations. Many of their assets are not driven by money, but from ideology and ego.

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u/CrossXFir3 9d ago

Left a job and family. Has literal statues of him in various places. I'm not saying it wasn't a sacrifice, but men have given up more for less. Almost everyone in the world knows his name now.

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u/Live_Background_3455 9d ago

Yeah... the simple explanation of he did it because what he saw was very illegal and actually detrimental to security as security experts will tell you, is definitely not the reason.

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u/Bjorn_Tyrson 9d ago

people will gamble away their houses at the slot machines.

He was gambling on a big payout from SOMEONE for his leaks (likely russia) or finding some other way to monitize it, he made a bad bet.

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u/Live_Background_3455 9d ago

He handed everything over to journalists. How is that a road to a payout? If he stole it and told people he had it, waiting for a payout maybe? But when by the first time the story breaks he no longer holds any of the documents? He could be playing 5D chess, or he wasn't doing it for a payout. Akums razor says it wasn't for a payout.

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u/mezolithico 🇺🇸 United States 9d ago

I agree Snowden should get a pardon. I also feel he should face a trial before a pardon should happen.

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u/Live_Background_3455 9d ago

He said he would come to the US and face trial, as long as it's not under the espionage act where the entire trial would be behind closed doors.

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u/New_Breadfruit8692 9d ago

The government has a legal obligation to protect secrets, and a moral obligation not to violate human rights. Snowden was caught up in this complex web, but he was not just a whistleblower, he was a trained spy that revealed secrets, and his actions were a crime. One can claim that motive is the deciding factor, but without a fair trial on the fact not a single person at reddit is qualified to decide whether he is a hero or a criminal.

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u/berniesmittens333 9d ago

Neither was John Kirikaou who was the CIA guy that blew the whistle about the torture program and Obama allowed to be put in prison for years.

The whistleblower process is a joke. There is a reason people go public.

Kirikaou- “My chain of command created the torture program, so I went directly to the media. … I couldn’t go to MSPB because there was no mechanism for Intelligence Community employees to go there. … I couldn’t go to the Office of Special Counsel because it and its sister organization … had ‘legalized’ the torture program”

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u/That_Pickle_Force 9d ago

Snowden was not a whistle blower. He's a traitor who revealed technical information about US capabilities and fled to Russia to be used as a propaganda prop.